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1min high-intensity exercise 3x a week improves fitness as much as 3x aerobics (2016)

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Re: 1min high-intensity exercise 3x a week improves fitness as much as 3x aerobics (2016)

#441

Post by AtlasBarfed »

alistairSH wrote: post #224
geraldwhen wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

50W is nothing, and 500W isn’t really a sprint. For an adult male, you should be pushing 1000-2000 over 20 second sprints. Walking slightly uphill is probably more intense than a 50w bike.

50W is barely moving on a bicycle. But 500W is a significant effort for an untrained person, particularly somebody of smaller stature. FWIW, I'm an avid recreational cyclist and my 1-hour power fluctuates in the 250W-280W range at 68-70kg body weight. My all-out sprint power is over 1000W, but not by much. 2000W is enough to win elite sprints, both on the track and on the road.

Mario Cipollini: 1943 watts. Although that's probably the max reading from possibly a minute long sprint, depends on the course. There's probably slightly uphill sprints that would have even more max wattage potential since top pro sprinters on flats are probably maxing out what they can neuromuscularly coordinate on a 53x11.

But anyway, if you know who that is, you'll know that 2000 watts is not a common max output.

Edit: Ok I was a 320 watts for 20 minutes guy a few years ago, I'm probably about 250 watts for 20 minutes guy now. I just did this workout, probably in the 500-600 watt range for the 20 second surges, and it was surprisingly hard.

Re: 1min high-intensity exercise 3x a week improves fitness as much as 3x aerobics (2016)

#442

Post by type-r »

mister_mister wrote: post #169
gadders wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like the saying goes, you can't out-train a bad diet (unless you're a complete outlier like Eddie Hall or Micheal Phelps or DK Metcalf). This is a good podcast on the topic as well: https://www.artofmanliness.com/health-fitness/health/new-sci...

Reading about the diet of DK Metcalf that is Low carb, Intermittent fasting, with plenty of vegetables is according to the latest science. Eddie Hall has goal based diets, Normal people wouldn't be able to process the amount of food he eats, can't be healthy to eat that much. But at the same time it's clearly working for him. Just saying genetics does a disservice to them.

How can a diet both be plenty of vegetables but also low carb? As far as I know basically all vegetables are 50~70% carbs.

Re: 1min high-intensity exercise 3x a week improves fitness as much as 3x aerobics (2016)

#443

Post by dahart »

dxhdr wrote: post #378
snowwrestler wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your body will only store surplus fat long-term if you consume enough calories to maintain the surplus. Otherwise your body makes fat from the sugary sweets, but then later converts it back and burns it when you need energy. The real “myth” of calories in = calories out is that it’s possible to do it by feel. It takes a lot of work and math, like spreadsheet-level, to actually track calories in and out. So even thoug…

> The real “myth” of calories in = calories out is that it’s possible to do it by feel. It takes a lot of work and math, like spreadsheet-level, to actually track calories in and out. So even though it is physically true as a concept, it’s not a good weight management strategy for most people. The real myth is that you can track calories in and calories out. How do you measure how many calories your body absorbs from…

It’s really common for the argument against CICO to be that it’s not perfect, measuring input and measuring output seem hard, and metabolism is elastic, and people are different. Those things are all true, but using CICO in practice to lose weight actually works, and it’s quite effective for most people, as long as you actually do it. CICO is how bodybuilding and modeling works. ;) The hardest part isn’t the measuring. The hardest part is making it a habit.

One secret about using CICO is that you do not need to know the gut absorption rate! You just need to track the calories before absorption, the numbers printed on the box. Easy these days with a smartphone app. The measurement does not need to be perfect at all. It only has to be decent on average. You can have variable accuracy of 25% on any given food and still get well under 10% on average for a week. It doesn’t matter if there’s a bias either, if you track your weight. The reason absorption and bias don’t matter is because you’re doing science with a black-box (your body). Measure the known input, monitor the output. Do it for a long time and you’ll find the maintenance input. Track input above that and verify mass gain, track below and verify loss. The maintenance value you come up with will “absorb” and bias, and gut calorie conversion rate, and other inaccuracies.

Measuring output is easy with a heart rate monitor. Changing metabolism we already discussed, but important to know that the range of elasticity is like around 15%, and in practice for any give person may be lower. It’s not some massive factor you can’t predict, it’s within a narrow enough range for the majority of people, statistically, that you don’t need to worry too much. And it will be accounted for if you track calories and weight over a long enough time frame.

Re: 1min high-intensity exercise 3x a week improves fitness as much as 3x aerobics (2016)

#444

Post by deterministic »

I highly recommend reading “Body by Science”. It shows how you can improve your overall muscle strength spending just 15 min in the gym once a week. Perfect for people like me who hate going to the gym. It’s simple. It works. I am 50+ and way stronger now than I was before.

Re: 1min high-intensity exercise 3x a week improves fitness as much as 3x aerobics (2016)

#445

Post by tayo42 »

oezi wrote: post #374
tayo42 wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's 4 hours of activity a day. That can't be true. I do that. I should be fading away then but hover at the same weight.

4 hours of strenuous exercise. This should consume around 3000 kcals. Studies have found that humans cannot consume more calories than 2.5x their basal metabolic rate.

You have to misinterpreting something. 2.5x is 4750 calories total. Athletes are eating more then that.

Re: 1min high-intensity exercise 3x a week improves fitness as much as 3x aerobics (2016)

#446

Post by sn9 »

FatActor wrote: post #440
sn9 wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More is more and less is less. If this wasn't the case, you'd have discovered a solution to famine. And gastric bypasses are one of the most effective interventions available for people with such disorderd eating that lifestyle changes can't stick.

Again, black and white thinking doesn't solve the problem. It just alienates people, and sometimes worse.

I have no idea what you're trying to say.

It is an objective fact that caloric surpluses and deficits are fundamental to manipulating bodyweight.

Any solution will be about getting people to maintain a surplus or deficit long enough to reach their goal weight.

There are many ways to communicate that to people, but pretending or trying to convince others that it isn't true is factually incorrect and literally counter-productive to their goals.

Re: 1min high-intensity exercise 3x a week improves fitness as much as 3x aerobics (2016)

#447

Post by sn9 »

mister_mister wrote: post #432
sn9 wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have several misunderstandings of basic science. "Calories" are simply a unit of energy. The energy released by the utilization of ATP can be measured in any unit of measure you like for energy. It won't change the fact that the unit can be calories. This is like arguing about Celsius vs some other unit. Likewise, the CICO model has been replicated over and over again in high quality studies that don't rely on se…

> "This idea of 'a calorie in and a calorie out' when it comes to weight loss is not only antiquated, it's just wrong,"[0] Link from havard. You are under the incorrect understanding that human body is closed system. Food doesn't need to be digested and what is digested doesn't need to be stored in fat cells. Question if you would eat all the food once a week would it have the same effect? Because in a closed system…

I have a literal degree in biology and have been reading about physiology, health and fitness, and related topics for well over a decade.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

This is textbook level stuff and you clearly haven't read a single one. Your wiki level understanding is missing the forest for the chlorophyll.

Re: 1min high-intensity exercise 3x a week improves fitness as much as 3x aerobics (2016)

#448

Post by balfirevic »

MezzoDelCammin wrote: post #87

personally, I'd be cautious of using this article to build up an exercise routine. Yes, intervals / HIIT are really effective and they consume relatively little time. Being an egineer it's tempting to use this as a base for some sort of 80-20 heuristics and simply say "this is good enough" and cut the aerobics. But is it? It's definitely better than doing nothing. But if the goal is some sort of performance improveme…

> But if the goal is some sort of performance improvement (specially in endurance sports - cycling, running, etc.)

It probably isn't, for most non-athletes and people who don't have a sport hobby.

> yes, intervals are definitely useful to push the body further, but only after a buttload of cardio

I definitely won't be doing "a buttload of cardio", so we're back to square one - what is a good 80:20 heuristics that balances time investment, discomfort and results.

Re: 1min high-intensity exercise 3x a week improves fitness as much as 3x aerobics (2016)

#449

Post by gassiss »

lukeschlather wrote: post #344
gassiss wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you're technically right, but just nitpicking. Of course you could count the calories in fibers and that wouldn't make you fat, as your body can't process that. But most people do not eat fiber for 90% of their meals

People often switch from more processed grains to whole grains specifically to increase their fiber intake and reduce the processable calories they're ingesting. I don't think it's nitpicking at all, this is the most basic stuff you need to think about when doing dieting - CICO is naive at best.

yeah, foods with more fiber will also make you less hungry, which in turn makes you eat less calories...

CICO is a great approach for the general population, and works great even amongst professionals that have weight management as their career (bodybuilders).

Re: 1min high-intensity exercise 3x a week improves fitness as much as 3x aerobics (2016)

#450

Post by xarope »

Fricken wrote: post #375
moneywoes wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What was your protocol?

Last few times I've done it was sprinting on stairs. Typically I'll do a 10 minute warm-up, and then 3-8 sprints, 20-40 seconds each, with ~3 minute rests in between. However I'm not super particular about protocols. I just go out, redline my heart rate a few times and call it a session. Last summer I was sprinting stairs every 3 days for a month to prepare for a week of multi-pitch climbing (with huge approaches) in…

Please excuse the bluntness, but I find it hard to believe that you only trained sprints every 3 days (so 2-3 times a week max) to train for huge approaches and multi-pitch climbing (I'm a trad climber and mountaineer too).

I assume this was not done in a vacuum, but also included numerous days of climbing and approaches as well, so probably 3/week of climbing, other low intensity work, as well as your then added 2-3/week of sprints.

And yes, I agree with your last statement, after 3 weeks in the mountains acclimating for a 7000m peak, even though we got snowed out and never summited, when I got back to ground zero I felt like my lungs and legs were invincible (for about a week, then the bottom dropped out and I went back to normal again!)

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