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Some gut bacteria appear to communicate with the brain

bbc.com

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Re: Some gut bacteria appear to communicate with the brain

#181

Post by rootusrootus »

tsol wrote: post #134
rswail wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a comment, using the term "mainstream medical system" is a "code smell" for me when discussing medical science. Have you had your gut biota analyzed to see whether there is a basis for your inflammation issues? Yes, "big pharma" has a lot of control, but medical research is not entirely driven by them, particularly outside of the US. It sounds like you remade your gut biota via various paths. "Traditional" medic…

>"Traditional" medicines are "medicines" when they get through a set of actual medical clinical trials, after which they are called "medicine". To be fair, Tylenol almost certainly wouldn't pass clinical trials today. Selling a drug OTC that so easily causes organ(liver) damage? Ridiculous. So would most NSAIDS-- as those cause stomach bleeding even in regular clinical doses. That also would imply that companies had…

> Tylenol almost certainly wouldn't pass clinical trials today.

I've heard that said before. Is it really true? I'd like to think we'd pull it off the shelves if it were really that bad. Looks like about 250 people are killed per year from overdose (accidents only, not suicides).

NSAIDs cause quite a lot more deaths than that, but it's possible they're used more heavily than acetaminophen, I'm not sure on the usage stats.

Re: Some gut bacteria appear to communicate with the brain

#182

Post by yosito »

rswail wrote: post #132
yosito wrote: post #7

In the last three years, something related to my gut-brain connection got fucked. I'm not sure if it was some kind of post-viral inflammation causing stress, or stress of isolation causing inflammation. But it's definitely a two way street and mine got completely stuck in a feedback loop. The mainstream medical system failed to help me. Eventually some functional medicine doctors managed to help me improve via diet,…

Just a comment, using the term "mainstream medical system" is a "code smell" for me when discussing medical science. Have you had your gut biota analyzed to see whether there is a basis for your inflammation issues? Yes, "big pharma" has a lot of control, but medical research is not entirely driven by them, particularly outside of the US. It sounds like you remade your gut biota via various paths. "Traditional" medic…

You've misunderstood my post. I'm not against modern medicine and "big pharma". My struggle is with these slow moving, outdated institutions that refuse to do any science or investigation at all. The mainstream medical system is bureaucracy and red tape, not science. I have done every laboratory analysis available to me. Most of the lab tests I had to order and pay for myself because doctor said "I don't think you need it, you seem fine". I had elevated inflammation markers and high levels of H Pylori and E Coli.

Yes, I probably remade my gut biota. Yes, I was shooting in the dark, because the medical system flat out refused to help me. I had doctors laugh in my face and tell me I was making things up because I was too young to be unhealthy. Is that science?

Yeah, clinical trials are needed to evaluate some traditional medicines. But why aren't those clinical trials being done? It's not like Ayahuasca was discovered yesterday. And it's not like it's hard to access. You can literally make it in your own home. I'm struggling to understand why so many people these days insist that "not doing science" is actually "science" as if science is static and we don't need to investigate anything new because we already know everything.

And as far as me giving myself gluten intolerance, fuck off. I've been gluten intolerant since these issues began, before I ever considered anything outside of mainstream medicine. I didn't do this to myself. And in fact, it's another thing that mainstream medical doctors refused to investigate. I had to order my own lab tests to confirm.

Re: Some gut bacteria appear to communicate with the brain

#183

Post by yosito »

ipython wrote: post #152
rswail wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a comment, using the term "mainstream medical system" is a "code smell" for me when discussing medical science. Have you had your gut biota analyzed to see whether there is a basis for your inflammation issues? Yes, "big pharma" has a lot of control, but medical research is not entirely driven by them, particularly outside of the US. It sounds like you remade your gut biota via various paths. "Traditional" medic…

I totally disagree. I have found doctors to be fantastic when you have a physically obvious or life threatening injury. Broken arm? Gunshot wound? Doctors work great. Chronic condition that has subjective symptoms at best? Doctors couldn’t care less.

My symptoms are not subjective. I lost weight, had constipation, was passing undigested food matter, had rashes all over my body, etc. But doctors still refused to investigate and told me nothing was wrong other than "yeah, you have some mild inflammation, don't eat food that bothers you".

Re: Some gut bacteria appear to communicate with the brain

#184

Post by yosito »

hellweaver666 wrote: post #151
rswail wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a comment, using the term "mainstream medical system" is a "code smell" for me when discussing medical science. Have you had your gut biota analyzed to see whether there is a basis for your inflammation issues? Yes, "big pharma" has a lot of control, but medical research is not entirely driven by them, particularly outside of the US. It sounds like you remade your gut biota via various paths. "Traditional" medic…

This reminds me of the Beat Poem "Storm" by Tim Minchin: "By definition," I begin, "Alternative medicine," I continue, "Has either not been proved to work, or been proved not to work. Do you know what they call Alternative medicine that's been proved to work? Medicine."

This attitude conflating "not been proved" with "proved not" is a logical fallacy and used far to often as a reason not to do experiments in the exact cases that experiments are called for.

Re: Some gut bacteria appear to communicate with the brain

#185

Post by yosito »

xvilka wrote: post #158
rswail wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a comment, using the term "mainstream medical system" is a "code smell" for me when discussing medical science. Have you had your gut biota analyzed to see whether there is a basis for your inflammation issues? Yes, "big pharma" has a lot of control, but medical research is not entirely driven by them, particularly outside of the US. It sounds like you remade your gut biota via various paths. "Traditional" medic…

Most traditional medicines likely no better than placebo, this is why they are still traditional. Some are outright dangerous, like those that contained aristolochic acid[1]. [1] https://www.asianscientist.com/2017/10/health/liver-cancer-h...

You're saying this as if clinical trials have been done, and you know it for a fact. But there have been few clinical trials done on the traditional medicines I've mentioned. And none of them contained aristolochic acid... that seems like a very random point to make when so many pharmaceuticals also contain harmful chemicals.

Re: Some gut bacteria appear to communicate with the brain

#186

Post by yosito »

wnolens wrote: post #126
yosito wrote: post #7

In the last three years, something related to my gut-brain connection got fucked. I'm not sure if it was some kind of post-viral inflammation causing stress, or stress of isolation causing inflammation. But it's definitely a two way street and mine got completely stuck in a feedback loop. The mainstream medical system failed to help me. Eventually some functional medicine doctors managed to help me improve via diet,…

Hmm.. same/similar. Maybe I should go outside the western playbook a little further. Thanks. An episode of extreme stress during the pandemic has left me with IBS-C. Apologize for TMI. Before: I ate anything, whenever, in whatever quantity body requested and was consistent 2-3x/day. Now: my body just does not pass stool on its own anymore and I require a prescription for Linzess (highest dosage). Without it, I will b…

I might have tried Linzess if it had been offered to me. Most of the doctors I saw probably wouldn't have even prescribed it if I had asked. They seemed set on not helping me.

My symptoms were similar to yours. I discovered on my own that digestive enzymes blends with every meal kept things flowing for me. Abdominal massage helped too. But I didn't make real progress until I started working with functional medicine doctors and trying different regimens of supplements with their direction.

Re: Some gut bacteria appear to communicate with the brain

#187

Post by yosito »

d23 wrote: post #35
yosito wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Constipation, headaches, stress, bloating, anxiety, depression, fatigue, weight loss, hair loss, rashes. I don't know what the cause was, but the gut-brain theory fits all of my experience and treatments aimed at improving my gut bacteria helped the most, and there has definitely been a strong connection between how my gut is feeling and how my mind is feeling.

Can I ask for a recommendation for the professional you worked with?

I would recommend googling "functional medicine doctors" in your area.

Re: Some gut bacteria appear to communicate with the brain

#188

Post by yosito »

fzeroracer wrote: post #159
yosito wrote: post #7

In the last three years, something related to my gut-brain connection got fucked. I'm not sure if it was some kind of post-viral inflammation causing stress, or stress of isolation causing inflammation. But it's definitely a two way street and mine got completely stuck in a feedback loop. The mainstream medical system failed to help me. Eventually some functional medicine doctors managed to help me improve via diet,…

Every thread on stuff like this there's always someone that has to step in and claim how their cancer was cured by this one weird trick that doctors hate. Ultimately the odds are that it's masking the symptoms in one way or another. Much like my cousin who went full into traditional medicine and claimed it solved all of her issues that she still has after downing a cocktail of 50 essential oils and whisky.

I get your skepticism. I honestly don't know what the traditional medicine did to my body other than that it took away the physical suffering I was feeling. Did it mask some symptoms? Maybe. The thing is, the mainstream medical system failed to find any problem. They didn't diagnose me with anything or offer me any treatment despite the fact that I felt like I was dying every day. They refused to investigate any possible causes and told me I was not sick.

A few mainstream doctors prescribed medicines to relieve my symptoms without addressing the underlying root causes. You seem to think that's a feature of traditional medicine, but it's actually quite common in mainstream medicine as well.

Re: Some gut bacteria appear to communicate with the brain

#189

Post by wnolens »

yosito wrote: post #186
wnolens wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm.. same/similar. Maybe I should go outside the western playbook a little further. Thanks. An episode of extreme stress during the pandemic has left me with IBS-C. Apologize for TMI. Before: I ate anything, whenever, in whatever quantity body requested and was consistent 2-3x/day. Now: my body just does not pass stool on its own anymore and I require a prescription for Linzess (highest dosage). Without it, I will b…

I might have tried Linzess if it had been offered to me. Most of the doctors I saw probably wouldn't have even prescribed it if I had asked. They seemed set on not helping me. My symptoms were similar to yours. I discovered on my own that digestive enzymes blends with every meal kept things flowing for me. Abdominal massage helped too. But I didn't make real progress until I started working with functional medicine d…

Glad you got some relief. It is truly puzzling. My doc stopped at Linzess, of course. Ultimately I don't want to take a pill every day for the rest of my life. Have a pointer to the folks that helped you?

Re: Some gut bacteria appear to communicate with the brain

#190

Post by yosito »

wnolens wrote: post #189
yosito wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I might have tried Linzess if it had been offered to me. Most of the doctors I saw probably wouldn't have even prescribed it if I had asked. They seemed set on not helping me. My symptoms were similar to yours. I discovered on my own that digestive enzymes blends with every meal kept things flowing for me. Abdominal massage helped too. But I didn't make real progress until I started working with functional medicine d…

Glad you got some relief. It is truly puzzling. My doc stopped at Linzess, of course. Ultimately I don't want to take a pill every day for the rest of my life. Have a pointer to the folks that helped you?

I had one doctor in Boulder who I worked with remotely, and one in Cape Town. I'd say just Google "functional medicine doctors" in your area. Unfortunately, you'll have to evaluate their trustworthiness on your own because most of them are not licensed and a lot of them are full of bullshit.
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