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The audacity of Apple Podcasts

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Re: The audacity of Apple Podcasts

#111

Post by bastawhiz »

tshaddox wrote: post #84
filoleg wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I upload a podcast to Apple, it's physically inaccessible unless you have a Mac or an iOS device. Unless I am misunderstanding your claim, this is not true. You can listen to Apple Podcasts using iTunes for Windows. You can also listen to them on Android. But dealing with it on Android is indeed annoying, because it requires downloading podcasts in itunes on your desktop, and then manually transferring them to y…

You can also listen to it on the Apple Podcasts website, e.g. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-daily/id1200361736...

The podcasts in question can't be played in the browser. It always forces you to open Apple Podcasts.

Here's an example: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/test-podcast/id1667708...

Re: The audacity of Apple Podcasts

#112

Post by bastawhiz »

dkonofalski wrote: post #90
bastawhiz wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Author here. > wouldn't hosts have the original source material that they uploaded As far as I'm aware, Apple never resurfaces the audio after it's uploaded, even in your dashboard. Even if they did, making someone manually download and reupload every asset for potentially hundreds of episodes is sadistic. Moreover, you physically can't leave, because your listeners won't follow you to your new hosting service. > The…

>Moreover, you physically can't leave, because your listeners won't follow you to your new hosting service. This is patently not true. I've had to do this after a podcast host had an outage and our followers moved over because we posted on social that there was a new feed. Joe Rogan's followers moved to Spotify just fine after he removed all other traces of his show. It's not great but you're literally getting what y…

As I said, this literally doesn't apply to Apple's own service, as they don't use RSS feeds. It works with every other hosting service.

Re: The audacity of Apple Podcasts

#113

Post by duxup »

CharlesW wrote: post #100

> Here’s what’s fucked: once you’ve started using Apple for hosting, you’re stuck. The fundamental misunderstanding is that Apple is not hosting the source RSS feed or media. As someone who operates a podcast hosting service, it's bizarre to me that the author doesn't understand this. > This customer was pasting their Apple listing URL, but the import tool was not getting a feed back. Of course, because it's not an R…

They also describe not being able to download the content they uploaded.

That makes me wonder if they aren’t keeping their own original files… that would be strange too.

Re: The audacity of Apple Podcasts

#114

Post by vk6flab »

I have produced a weekly podcast about amateur radio since 2011. It was hosted on S3 since I started because it became immediately clear that any other option would put my content under the control of someone who did not have my best interest at heart.

Today it's mirrored across dozens of aggregators, converted to eBooks, converted to Morse Code, uploaded to YouTube, posted on social media, emailed to listeners and included in magazine articles and news broadcasts across the globe. All the content is still under my direct control.

As for making money, not so much. I'd have to check my accounts for an exact number, but $500 over that time is about right.

It highlights to me that someone is making money from podcasting, but that someone is not me and I doubt it's any different for the vast majority of podcast producers.

I think as a society we need to figure out how content creators can be remunerated for their efforts and not perpetuate the current model where "facilitators" in all their varied guises make all the money.

Re: The audacity of Apple Podcasts

#115

Post by filoleg »

bastawhiz wrote: post #109
filoleg wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I upload a podcast to Apple, it's physically inaccessible unless you have a Mac or an iOS device. Unless I am misunderstanding your claim, this is not true. You can listen to Apple Podcasts using iTunes for Windows. You can also listen to them on Android. But dealing with it on Android is indeed annoying, because it requires downloading podcasts in itunes on your desktop, and then manually transferring them to y…

You cannot download these podcast episodes as a file because they are protected with DRM. Seriously, find one of these shows and try getting a file from it

Are all podcasts protected this way or just some specific ones? Because I picked a random one from the front page of the podcast section in iTunes on Win10, and it worked for me with zero issues[0].

If you can find a podcast on Apple Podcasts for which the method I described in my other comment doesn't work, please post it here. Because it would feel kinda strange if Podcasts app applied DRM like this only to some specific podcasts and not all of them.

0. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34524966

Re: The audacity of Apple Podcasts

#116

Post by bastawhiz »

SllX wrote: post #58
bastawhiz wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Author here. > If you're charging a subscription fee The DRM applies even if you charge no fee. > why would you expect Apple to make it available to competing podcast apps Because every single other podcast hosting service does, with the exception of folks that signed a contract with Spotify. > If you post something on TikTok it doesn't show up on people's Facebook feeds. It can, actually. You can post a link. If I u…

If you’re paying money, signing an agreement and uploading files, Apple isn’t tricking you: you’re not doing your due diligence OR you just don’t care if anyone outside the Podcasts app can listen (there are podcasters who for reasons—good or not—assume their reach is only about as far as iTunes/Apple Podcasts). This is crap, but it’s not because the deal Apple is offering to podcasters is crap: $20/year hosting and…

> you’re not doing your due diligence OR you just don’t care if anyone outside the Podcasts app can listen

If you don't know to ask, how would you make an informed choice?

> the biggest podcast ecosystem that exists

That's kind of the thing: people think "I'm going to do it right and host with Apple, they're the OG podcast company" and then find themselves trapped.

Re: The audacity of Apple Podcasts

#117

Post by SllX »

janalsncm wrote: post #103
smithza wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "is-should" gap here is irrelevant. In our ideal worlds Apple "should" not hide the data and protect the audio files with DRM. Apple argues against this position with their business interest in mind.

I disagree. To me the “is-should” gap is the only thing worth talking about. Everything else is just a matter of fact. I’m not a lawyer anyways so I don’t feel like my opinion on what the law is will be very helpful. Apple is going to do what is best for Apple, and when that is contrary to our interests we should talk about it. Laws of Man are not laws of nature, they are a perpetually shifting body of agreements tha…

You don’t need to be a lawyer to have opinions on what the law should be, but if you’re going to propose a legal reform you’re going to come up against the existing values that caused the existing laws to be formed.

Contract law is about one of the oldest forms of law there is and it persists because it is fundamentally two or more parties coming to and being bound by an agreement. It is an age old tale at this point that you basically should know what you are paying for, why you’re paying for it, what you stand to gain and if you have any doubts about the terms of the service you feel unqualified to make a judgment call on, consult someone who lives and breathes this stuff.

Apple offered terms. You accept or reject them or if you can, you renegotiate but you have to have a reason for them to consider renegotiating with you, as they’re not obligated to offer a service under any other terms than the ones they stipulated. So your concerns are really a policy dispute, not a legal one: you want the service Apple offered but not under the terms Apple offered them. How is this not resolved by either you refusing to use the service or them refusing to serve you? Neither one of you is being compelled to offer or make use of a particular podcasting service; and to be fair and I’ve been clear on this point, I think it’s a fair deal between the two parties involved that is also total crap for podcast listeners, but there’s a fair gap between thinking something is total crap and thinking there is a legislative remedy informed by good values that is fair to the service provider considering they could also and would be entirely within their rights to just not offer the service at all like all the years they didn’t offer this exact service beforehand but in which other podcast hosts have continued to exist (and still exist) and offer a like service on their terms.

Why should any of that be any different?

Re: The audacity of Apple Podcasts

#118

Post by bastawhiz »

filoleg wrote: post #115
bastawhiz wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cannot download these podcast episodes as a file because they are protected with DRM. Seriously, find one of these shows and try getting a file from it

Are all podcasts protected this way or just some specific ones? Because I picked a random one from the front page of the podcast section in iTunes on Win10, and it worked for me with zero issues[0]. If you can find a podcast on Apple Podcasts for which the method I described in my other comment doesn't work, please post it here. Because it would feel kinda strange if Podcasts app applied DRM like this only to some sp…

No: this isn't just any random podcast from the iTunes homepage. It only applies to podcasts which are hosted by Apple, not ones which Apple lists in its directory. This is a very small percentage of shows.

Here is an example. Curious if you can get it to work on Windows, because I physically cannot save the audio to a normal file on Mac. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/test-podcast/id1667708...

Re: The audacity of Apple Podcasts

#119

Post by crazygringo »

freedomben wrote: post #54
crazygringo wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would there be any expectation that a podcast distribution service should also serve as a private file archive? And why would podcast hosts even need to retrieve their own material? If there are podcast hosts who don't hold onto their original audio files they had before uploading them, then what are they thinking? That's like sending a project to a client and then deleting your own copy of it. I understand that…

> I understand that the author tries to provide an "import from Apple Podcasts" service for convenience, but that's merely a convenience. When you run a podcast with thousands or tens of thousands of episodes, each with titles, descriptions, tags, and all other sorts of metadata on top of the mp3, it's not "merely a convenience."

There are no podcasts with tens of thousands of episodes.

And there are very few with thousands. And if you're at that level of professionalism and popularity then you know what you're doing and this article doesn't apply.

Re: The audacity of Apple Podcasts

#120

Post by SllX »

bastawhiz wrote: post #116
SllX wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’re paying money, signing an agreement and uploading files, Apple isn’t tricking you: you’re not doing your due diligence OR you just don’t care if anyone outside the Podcasts app can listen (there are podcasters who for reasons—good or not—assume their reach is only about as far as iTunes/Apple Podcasts). This is crap, but it’s not because the deal Apple is offering to podcasters is crap: $20/year hosting and…

> you’re not doing your due diligence OR you just don’t care if anyone outside the Podcasts app can listen If you don't know to ask, how would you make an informed choice? > the biggest podcast ecosystem that exists That's kind of the thing: people think "I'm going to do it right and host with Apple, they're the OG podcast company" and then find themselves trapped.

I addressed those points already here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34524635
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