In Their 20s, Struggling to Save and Tired of Being Lectured About It • Hacker News Board

Re: In Their 20s, Struggling to Save and Tired of Being Lectured About It

#91

Post by ryandrake » Wed, Jan 25, 2023, 9:14 PM UTC

saiya-jin wrote: post #46

timr wrote: post #18

The first example is a junior level social worker -- that's fine, but come now: we all know that social work is not a high-paying industry. The second example is a lady with 76k in debt, who has managed to pay down nearly 70% of it . Somehow this doesn't qualify as savings to the author. The third woman actually makes a lot (they won't say how much) and has "achieved financial stability" (thus undermining the thesis…

The whole premise of the article is beyond ridiculous - you are not supposed to be saving in your 20s (which first half is spent on studies for many) but enjoying the life, whatever that means for you! Once responsibilities like parenting and career ladders come into play its too late, there is no going back to that sweet careless freedom. If I had a dollar for every person telling me 'I should have traveled the worl…

Alternate view: Early life is the best time to save because of compounding interest. A dollar saved in your 20s has far more lifetime value than a dollar saved in your 30s, 40s or 50s. A year spent horsing around in Nepal "finding yourself" could easily mean having to delay retirement 5 years. I'd rather goof off and enjoy 20 carefree years when I'm old than 4 years when I'm young and have to work until I die.

Re: In Their 20s, Struggling to Save and Tired of Being Lectured About It

#92

Post by jewayne » Wed, Jan 25, 2023, 9:19 PM UTC

notch656c wrote: post #86

jewayne wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that's how it works. Certainly nobody would just complain loudly that "Nobody wants to work anymore!" and demand more suffering for the people at the bottom of society.

It would be an interesting experiment if we fired all the social workers and gave the money of the salary and all the overhead of those programs directly to the poor, and compare the outcomes.

Yes, because statistically valid studies are cheap and don't require highly-trained professionals.

Re: In Their 20s, Struggling to Save and Tired of Being Lectured About It

#93

Post by feet » Wed, Jan 25, 2023, 9:20 PM UTC

kelnos wrote: post #77

rcme wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The first example is a junior level social worker -- that's fine, but come now: we all know that social work is not a high-paying industry. This is an unfair dismissal. Most industries are not high paying, therefore most workers are not earning enough to save. You're basically saying "they're not saving because they're not earning more!" Also, what is your proposed solution here? To stop having social workers? > so…

> Also, what is your proposed solution here? To stop having social workers? Training for a job that pays below what you need to live comfortably is a choice. You may feel passionate enough about that job that you are willing to accept the consequences of a low salary. If you are not, then you should not train to do that job. I do sympathize, as it's essentially impossible for a 16- or 17-year-old to fully understand…

I think the pertinent question is do we just stop having social workers?

They provide essential services, you're focusing too much on the choice to do something that pays a lot vs choice to do something you're passionate about

How about the choice to do something that simply needs to be done?

Re: In Their 20s, Struggling to Save and Tired of Being Lectured About It

#94

Post by caycep » Wed, Jan 25, 2023, 9:20 PM UTC

rcme wrote: post #33

timr wrote: post #18

The first example is a junior level social worker -- that's fine, but come now: we all know that social work is not a high-paying industry. The second example is a lady with 76k in debt, who has managed to pay down nearly 70% of it . Somehow this doesn't qualify as savings to the author. The third woman actually makes a lot (they won't say how much) and has "achieved financial stability" (thus undermining the thesis…

> The first example is a junior level social worker -- that's fine, but come now: we all know that social work is not a high-paying industry. This is an unfair dismissal. Most industries are not high paying, therefore most workers are not earning enough to save. You're basically saying "they're not saving because they're not earning more!" Also, what is your proposed solution here? To stop having social workers? > so…

This is probably off topic, but I would gladly pay a few more $$ in taxes to have social workers have pay equity with other professionals.

Re: In Their 20s, Struggling to Save and Tired of Being Lectured About It

#95

Post by feet » Wed, Jan 25, 2023, 9:21 PM UTC

jewayne wrote: post #57

monero-xmr wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, what is your proposed solution here? To stop having social workers? Reduce expenses to live within your means, or figure out how to earn more money. The plight of... every person on earth

"I don't want to see you, I don't want to hear from you."

People in the US seem to just hate poor people

Re: In Their 20s, Struggling to Save and Tired of Being Lectured About It

#96

Post by ryandrake » Wed, Jan 25, 2023, 9:29 PM UTC

mrguyorama wrote: post #80

fnfjfk wrote: post #24

The woman who is not thinking about retirement savings but is doing Barry’s, yoga, and ClassPass feels like she has the opportunity to make better financial choices, unlike some of the others that are just clearly in poverty. Those class-based gyms are stupendously expensive, $30 or more per workout. Compares unfavorably with a regular gym membership or buying running shoes or a bike, depending on what you’re into. L…

This is such a stupid take. Guess what, those little expenses DON'T add up. It turns out pretty much no small transactions you avoid to save five bucks here and there can't actually compete with costs of rent going up 80% over the course of five years. I live so frugally I have an entire years worth of cash in my bank, despite only making $65k (underpaid even for an area that has low SWE pay and a company that openly…

They do add up. No, you're not going to be able to afford a house simply by dropping the $8 lattes, but your chances improve greatly if you avoid the overall lifestyle inflation and always-be-spending mentality. A major symptom of lifestyle inflation is paying people to do things you can DIY. I work with perpetually broke people who pay a nanny/housekeeper, pay people to fix their car, pay plumbers, and so on. The unnecessary cost of always defaulting to "pay someone" really does add up. Plus all the eating out, streaming subscriptions, gym memberships, and so on add up to a significant chunk of savings.

Re: In Their 20s, Struggling to Save and Tired of Being Lectured About It

#97

Post by baal80spam » Wed, Jan 25, 2023, 9:41 PM UTC

bachmeier wrote: post #47

> Ms. German-Tanner said 20-somethings were often encouraged to take financial steps like build emergency funds, save for retirement and pay off debt. They’re advised to invest when the market is down and to start thinking about their futures as early as possible. "Build an emergency fund" is basically impossible for a lot of people. I remember hearing that advice. The problem was that food, housing, my car, and rela…

> It was never easy.

I'd even say that it was harder since nowadays there are various social programs, not to mention "helicopter money". Until around after WW2 if you didn't work, you got nothing.

Re: In Their 20s, Struggling to Save and Tired of Being Lectured About It

#98

Post by brightball » Wed, Jan 25, 2023, 9:51 PM UTC

rcme wrote: post #33

timr wrote: post #18

The first example is a junior level social worker -- that's fine, but come now: we all know that social work is not a high-paying industry. The second example is a lady with 76k in debt, who has managed to pay down nearly 70% of it . Somehow this doesn't qualify as savings to the author. The third woman actually makes a lot (they won't say how much) and has "achieved financial stability" (thus undermining the thesis…

> The first example is a junior level social worker -- that's fine, but come now: we all know that social work is not a high-paying industry. This is an unfair dismissal. Most industries are not high paying, therefore most workers are not earning enough to save. You're basically saying "they're not saving because they're not earning more!" Also, what is your proposed solution here? To stop having social workers? > so…

Don't most government jobs have a great benefits plan including 401k with matching and the ability to have loans dismissed?

Re: In Their 20s, Struggling to Save and Tired of Being Lectured About It

#99

Post by _aavaa_ » Wed, Jan 25, 2023, 10:12 PM UTC

feet wrote: post #93

kelnos wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, what is your proposed solution here? To stop having social workers? Training for a job that pays below what you need to live comfortably is a choice. You may feel passionate enough about that job that you are willing to accept the consequences of a low salary. If you are not, then you should not train to do that job. I do sympathize, as it's essentially impossible for a 16- or 17-year-old to fully understand…

I think the pertinent question is do we just stop having social workers? They provide essential services, you're focusing too much on the choice to do something that pays a lot vs choice to do something you're passionate about How about the choice to do something that simply needs to be done?

Under the current circumstances, if someone chooses to do a job because they find it socially important then they won’t have much leverage to bargain for better pay.

If there are people who will todo your job for the amount of money you find unacceptable, you will have a hard time bargaining for more money.

We, the people who pay for social worker through taxes, must be willing to pay them more. AND the social workers must be willing to walk away if their own needs aren’t being met.

Re: In Their 20s, Struggling to Save and Tired of Being Lectured About It

#100

Post by jleyank » Wed, Jan 25, 2023, 10:45 PM UTC

zwieback wrote: post #17

jleyank wrote: post #3

Looking back, our retirement saving really started in the mid-late 30’s. No kids, two incomes and finally above entry level salaries. Continued through our 50’s. Only out of school mid 20’s and married a few years after than. No chance to really accumulate then.

Same here, by mid 30s savings started becoming meaningful. I always interpreted the "always save some" mantra (which was a mantra as long as I can remember) as a way to form habits, not to really accumulate any large amounts of retirement funds.

Saving is good. Getting the 401k match is good. Have no experience with the cash flow requirement of kids or of hitting the startup lottery. But find the balance between today and tomorrow because too much of either isn’t a win. And things might not be quite what you’d like tomorrow.