In Their 20s, Struggling to Save and Tired of Being Lectured About It • Hacker News Board

Re: In Their 20s, Struggling to Save and Tired of Being Lectured About It

#61

Post by rqtwteye » Wed, Jan 25, 2023, 8:29 PM UTC

notch656c wrote: post #44

rcme wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The first example is a junior level social worker -- that's fine, but come now: we all know that social work is not a high-paying industry. This is an unfair dismissal. Most industries are not high paying, therefore most workers are not earning enough to save. You're basically saying "they're not saving because they're not earning more!" Also, what is your proposed solution here? To stop having social workers? > so…

Someone with the skills to be a social worker, on average, can use those skills for higher paid work. They are knowingly trading the good feeling they get when helping people for the cash they could get by being a cold capitalist. You can make the argument social workers should be paid more but probably not the argument the person is employed in the highest saving ability profession they could reasonably hope to work…

What are all the capitalists going to do if everybody wants to go for the big bucks and not do things like social work, nursing and many other jobs? Society is seriously f...ed up if it's ok to exploit people who do a valuable job for society and only selfishness gets rewarded.

Same for entrepreneurs. What are the genius billionaires going to do if nobody wants to work for them and everybody wants to be an entrepreneur? We need to reward all kinds of useful jobs and not have all reward go to the sociopaths at the top.

Re: In Their 20s, Struggling to Save and Tired of Being Lectured About It

#62

Post by burkaman » Wed, Jan 25, 2023, 8:29 PM UTC

timr wrote: post #39

rcme wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The first example is a junior level social worker -- that's fine, but come now: we all know that social work is not a high-paying industry. This is an unfair dismissal. Most industries are not high paying, therefore most workers are not earning enough to save. You're basically saying "they're not saving because they're not earning more!" Also, what is your proposed solution here? To stop having social workers? > so…

I'm not dismissing the person. I'm saying: if the author's purpose is to generalize from this example to all 20-somethings , it's obviously biased. Placing this example first was an editorial decision, and it's designed to elicit sympathy. Imagine if the author had led with the 28-year old NYC resident who saves 2k a month. Also, I just want to add: I'm not engaging you in a debate about whether or not social workers…

$40,000 is an above-average income for a 22-year-old in America. If anything they should have picked someone who made less if they wanted to generalize to all 20-somethings.

Re: In Their 20s, Struggling to Save and Tired of Being Lectured About It

#63

Post by timr » Wed, Jan 25, 2023, 8:30 PM UTC

burkaman wrote: post #54

timr wrote: post #18

The first example is a junior level social worker -- that's fine, but come now: we all know that social work is not a high-paying industry. The second example is a lady with 76k in debt, who has managed to pay down nearly 70% of it . Somehow this doesn't qualify as savings to the author. The third woman actually makes a lot (they won't say how much) and has "achieved financial stability" (thus undermining the thesis…

This feels a lot like the lectures these people are tired of. "Why didn't you pick a higher-paying career, why did you go to college if you couldn't afford it, why not cut out all unnecessary expenses and stop seeing your friends". Yes, all these people could probably make different choices to save a bit more money, but a) min-maxing life like that sucks, and b) most people constantly giving this advice didn't do tha…

I am certain that people who want to read an article with this title are convinced that life has dealt them an unfair hand, and are willing to ignore or dismiss every example to the contrary.

...as this author has almost systematically done. It's not really a "lecture" when I'm just re-stating the facts in the story, is it?

Re: In Their 20s, Struggling to Save and Tired of Being Lectured About It

#64

Post by kelnos » Wed, Jan 25, 2023, 8:31 PM UTC

burkaman wrote: post #54

timr wrote: post #18

The first example is a junior level social worker -- that's fine, but come now: we all know that social work is not a high-paying industry. The second example is a lady with 76k in debt, who has managed to pay down nearly 70% of it . Somehow this doesn't qualify as savings to the author. The third woman actually makes a lot (they won't say how much) and has "achieved financial stability" (thus undermining the thesis…

This feels a lot like the lectures these people are tired of. "Why didn't you pick a higher-paying career, why did you go to college if you couldn't afford it, why not cut out all unnecessary expenses and stop seeing your friends". Yes, all these people could probably make different choices to save a bit more money, but a) min-maxing life like that sucks, and b) most people constantly giving this advice didn't do tha…

> This feels a lot like the lectures these people are tired of.

How do you figure? The person you're replying to is pointing out that the majority of people profiled for the article seem to be doing just fine: they are saving at a decent (some at a more-than-decent) rate, and are living fairly comfortably. Lecturing them about something they're already doing seems pointless.

Only two of the people profiled in the article seem to actually be struggling, and might get lectures they're tired of. If the others are getting these lectures, then whoever is doing the lecturing clearly doesn't know how well they're actually doing!

You are replying to something that the grandparent did not actually write.

> when you describe $40,000 as a "low income", are you aware that the median income for a 20-24 year old is less than that?

Are you aware that something can be low even when there are other things that are even lower? Also I don't see where the parent mentioned "$40,000" at all, so maybe you clicked the reply button on the wrong post?

Re: In Their 20s, Struggling to Save and Tired of Being Lectured About It

#65

Post by grammers » Wed, Jan 25, 2023, 8:31 PM UTC

timr wrote: post #18

The first example is a junior level social worker -- that's fine, but come now: we all know that social work is not a high-paying industry. The second example is a lady with 76k in debt, who has managed to pay down nearly 70% of it . Somehow this doesn't qualify as savings to the author. The third woman actually makes a lot (they won't say how much) and has "achieved financial stability" (thus undermining the thesis…

Also: Why would you already want to start saving in your twenties? If you have to pay debts etc, of course, there's nothing left for saving, but it'll work out in the future when the debts are paid.

Re: In Their 20s, Struggling to Save and Tired of Being Lectured About It

#66

Post by notch656c » Wed, Jan 25, 2023, 8:32 PM UTC

rqtwteye wrote: post #61

notch656c wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone with the skills to be a social worker, on average, can use those skills for higher paid work. They are knowingly trading the good feeling they get when helping people for the cash they could get by being a cold capitalist. You can make the argument social workers should be paid more but probably not the argument the person is employed in the highest saving ability profession they could reasonably hope to work…

What are all the capitalists going to do if everybody wants to go for the big bucks and not do things like social work, nursing and many other jobs? Society is seriously f...ed up if it's ok to exploit people who do a valuable job for society and only selfishness gets rewarded. Same for entrepreneurs. What are the genius billionaires going to do if nobody wants to work for them and everybody wants to be an entreprene…

If nobody does at the current wage, then wages will have to rise to meet supply/demand.

As it stands individuals see the good feels as part of their wages. Otherwise they would do something higher paying. IF nobody does the job because the good feels does nothing for them then they'll have to start paying as much as the cold capitalist job.

Re: In Their 20s, Struggling to Save and Tired of Being Lectured About It

#67

Post by travisjungroth » Wed, Jan 25, 2023, 8:32 PM UTC

sokoloff wrote: post #20

At least two of the women (the 2nd and 3rd profiled in the story) are pretty much killing it. One has an emergency fund over $10K, is regularly saving additional money, all on a $65K income at age 25. That's got to put her in the top 10% of 25-year olds. The third is absolutely crushing it by any reasonable guessing at her financial flows.

> That's got to put her in the top 10% of 25-year olds.

I think that supports the article. That someone with two-months of income saved up would be in the top 10% of her age group isn't a great sign about the state of her age group.

Re: In Their 20s, Struggling to Save and Tired of Being Lectured About It

#68

Post by burkaman » Wed, Jan 25, 2023, 8:32 PM UTC

timr wrote: post #63

burkaman wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This feels a lot like the lectures these people are tired of. "Why didn't you pick a higher-paying career, why did you go to college if you couldn't afford it, why not cut out all unnecessary expenses and stop seeing your friends". Yes, all these people could probably make different choices to save a bit more money, but a) min-maxing life like that sucks, and b) most people constantly giving this advice didn't do tha…

I am certain that people who want to read an article with this title are convinced that life has dealt them an unfair hand, and are willing to ignore or dismiss every example to the contrary. ...as this author has almost systematically done. It's not really a "lecture" when I'm just re-stating the facts in the story, is it?

It's true, if you had only restated the facts it would not have been a lecture.

Re: In Their 20s, Struggling to Save and Tired of Being Lectured About It

#69

Post by kelnos » Wed, Jan 25, 2023, 8:34 PM UTC

timr wrote: post #18

The first example is a junior level social worker -- that's fine, but come now: we all know that social work is not a high-paying industry. The second example is a lady with 76k in debt, who has managed to pay down nearly 70% of it . Somehow this doesn't qualify as savings to the author. The third woman actually makes a lot (they won't say how much) and has "achieved financial stability" (thus undermining the thesis…

> The second example is a lady with 76k in debt, who has managed to pay down nearly 70% of it. Somehow this doesn't qualify as savings to the author.

Not only that, but she manages to maintain an emergency fund of $10k. I... think she's doing just fine?

Re: In Their 20s, Struggling to Save and Tired of Being Lectured About It

#70

Post by happytoexplain » Wed, Jan 25, 2023, 8:34 PM UTC

timr wrote: post #63

burkaman wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This feels a lot like the lectures these people are tired of. "Why didn't you pick a higher-paying career, why did you go to college if you couldn't afford it, why not cut out all unnecessary expenses and stop seeing your friends". Yes, all these people could probably make different choices to save a bit more money, but a) min-maxing life like that sucks, and b) most people constantly giving this advice didn't do tha…

I am certain that people who want to read an article with this title are convinced that life has dealt them an unfair hand, and are willing to ignore or dismiss every example to the contrary. ...as this author has almost systematically done. It's not really a "lecture" when I'm just re-stating the facts in the story, is it?

>I am certain that people who want to read an article with this title are convinced that life has dealt them an unfair hand, and are willing to ignore or dismiss every example to the contrary.

Wow, this is unrealistically antagonistic. I think you need some qualifiers somewhere in that assertion. Anybody who simply "wants to read an article with this title"? Every example to the contrary?