1min high-intensity exercise 3x a week improves fitness as much as 3x aerobics (2016) • Hacker News Board

Re: 1min high-intensity exercise 3x a week improves fitness as much as 3x aerobics (2016)

#401

Post by caeril » Wed, Jan 25, 2023, 6:51 PM UTC

jcims wrote: post #387

edanm wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’ve never believed this — only because my weight is so consistent and my eating is not. That's only one side of the equation. It is a basically proven fact (and largely implied by physics) that `calorie intake - expenditure = net weight change`. That is pretty much beyond dispute. It is also true that some things affect expenditure, and it seems likely that most people have a "set point" that your body attempts to…

Could also be that the incredibly complex digestive system isn't just a food mulcher but is capable of moderating caloric intake based on any number of parameters.

Eat a high-fat meal or a can of Pringles with Orlistat, then you'll have an idea of what happens if your digestive system fails to extract calories from what you eat. Trust me, you'll know.

No, our digestive tracts are extremely good at extracting any and all usable calories from our food.

100% of the time, when someone makes this claim, they are mis-estimating either their intake or expenditure, or not tracking for a long enough time period to escape the error bars inherent in daily hydration variance.

Re: 1min high-intensity exercise 3x a week improves fitness as much as 3x aerobics (2016)

#402

Post by asdff » Wed, Jan 25, 2023, 6:53 PM UTC

jononomo wrote: post #275

frognumber wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I cut my calorie intake by a moderate amount, I don't lose any fat. If I cut my calorie intake by an extreme amount, I start to lose fat. My hypothesis is that the equation that weight loss is related to calorie intake minus expenditure, but I think the conclusions one draws from it fail to take into account how much the body can control expenditure. My body seems to naturally drift up in fat weight, very slowly -…

Conversely, you could increase your caloric intake and still lose fat if you ate only beef, which is the diet I recommend.

Rabbit would be even faster but you do have to supplement fats to avoid dying.

Re: 1min high-intensity exercise 3x a week improves fitness as much as 3x aerobics (2016)

#403

Post by mister_mister » Wed, Jan 25, 2023, 6:55 PM UTC

librish wrote: post #377

Frost1x wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does this proove the point? In the example given, the diabetic is expending more calories (through waste) than the non-diabetic... the model still holds valid. The diabetic has less net calories absorbed by their body. >how do we know there aren't factors yet to be discovered? We don't and can't (by definition), that's part of the scientific process. Part of that process requires us to find evidence to the contra…

The point is that when people say calories IN they normally refer to what you put in your mouth, not how much your body absorbs.

That is problem with CICO proponents start with scientific terms. But it always ends up with magic what does or does not count based and whatever the argument they are in. CICO models doesn't state anything they claim, but it in the end it's argument into nothing. Because human cells does not use calories it uses ATP through the kerb cycle. That whole process so bizarre complex, and then also based on so many confounded factors, that CICO is just too simplistic and it's almost impossible to lose weight and keep it off according to the model. Link to study about how the biggest losers contestants are doing after the show. Hint not well...

https://www.health.harvard.edu/diet-and-weight-loss/lessons-...

Re: 1min high-intensity exercise 3x a week improves fitness as much as 3x aerobics (2016)

#404

Post by FatActor » Wed, Jan 25, 2023, 6:56 PM UTC

asdff wrote: post #388

FatActor wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who generated the heat that you measured in the calorimeter? Gut biome bacteria consumed an amount of those calories. How many? It varies from person to person. So calories in = calories out, but we don't know how many were used by the person, how many by the gut flora, and how many were excreted do to inability to metabolize. Ergo, hardly basic physics. Reductionism is only useful if you know how to apply it.

You don't need to know all of these things if you are measuring input (calories in) and your output (weight on the scale every week). It hardly matters then how efficient your gut is. These are all relative values. Of course 2000 calories will look different for different people. What matters is if you have an understanding of how much calories you are putting into your system, you can now make changes and measure a…

I agree with that, as do most people. What I object to is that calories-in-calories-out is the ONLY thing at play, and people claiming "simple physics" are working against any deeper understanding of the issues. I think this side of the argument is "Just eat less and you won't be fat. Duh." What they don't understand is that if a body has a hormonal anomaly, it might need to 5000 kcal/day just meet the 1500kc/day basic metabolic rate because the other 2500 kcal is being metabolized into fat by a broken endocrine system. If they drop down to 1500 kcal/day, only 300kc of that is going towards keeping the body running. It is completely out of their control how the calories are used due to their bodies, so CIn=COut is meaningless. The obesity epidemic is not completely about eating too much (which is part of it), but is about the environmental factors impacting how bodies actually work. If it was just Cin/Cout, gastric bypass would solve the problem, but that is not available to people that are suffering such hormonal disruptions because they would just die or be eating nonstop.

Re: 1min high-intensity exercise 3x a week improves fitness as much as 3x aerobics (2016)

#405

Post by asdff » Wed, Jan 25, 2023, 6:57 PM UTC

tvrg wrote: post #228

dmix wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> without making your calorie intake less than your expenditure you will not loose weight I've asked on HN a couple times in the past for citations that support this meme and haven't yet found a good source on this. The connection between caloric restriction and weight loss isn't as straight forward as people seem to think, despite that being the standard correlation pushed since the 1950s. Calories seems to be the c…

I have the same question: People often calculate with calories as if it is really simple math. But - honest question - does my body really have to suck up every calorie or could it excrete some calories in the toilet and also vary that amount depending on my caloric intake? For example, I have read somewhere that you urinate superfluous proteins - which also have calories. Also, if I'm hungry I get cold. I might put…

The idea is that you have a healthy lifestyle along with caloric tracking. So you are working out regularly each week. You'd be eating a consistently healthy diet versus e.g. a sugary drink worth a few hundred calories that isn't making you less hungry.

Then your actual rate, whatever it is or how much it varies, hardly matters long term. Sure there would be variance, but on the whole, long term, you are only caring about the weight on the scale. So you measure calories in and your weight, and given you are consistent about burning calories exercising and the food choices in your diet, dialing back calories in will make a change on the scale, maybe a bigger or smaller one for different people, but a change no less. No one runs on air.

Re: 1min high-intensity exercise 3x a week improves fitness as much as 3x aerobics (2016)

#406

Post by caeril » Wed, Jan 25, 2023, 7:07 PM UTC

kasey_junk wrote: post #346

MacsHeadroom wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody is contesting the physical reality of CICO; what they are contesting is that the "calories out" section of the diet is as easily controlled as previously thought. I'm supposedly on a 1500 calorie deficit, eating ~1300-1500 calories a day and burning ~3000, according to my fitbit. But I'm only losing about 0.5lbs per week. My conclusion is that I'm really only burning 2000 calories despite HIIT 3x/week, strengt…

Both your calories in numbers and calories out are subject to extreme estimation error. Also body composition changes can make “weight loss” difficult as you replace fat with muscle. You can also get a gross estimate of muscle/water/fat mass to see those changes (or go get a very accurate measurement a few times in a facility equipped for such things).

This is generally the correct answer.

Online TDEE calculators almost always overestimate expenditure, as do smartwatches. On the intake side, people lie to themselves constantly. First, they generally don't actually weigh their portions. In the rare event they really are weighing their food, they'll "accidentally" load up 4.3oz of something, then input it into their tracker as 4oz. Then they'll neglect to log their sauces and condiments, because it's "only" 20kcal for a tablespoon. These discrepancies add up.

Invariably, these ridiculous claims come down to people being liars, not just to others, but to themselves.

Re: 1min high-intensity exercise 3x a week improves fitness as much as 3x aerobics (2016)

#407

Post by asdff » Wed, Jan 25, 2023, 7:07 PM UTC

tallytarik wrote: post #176

dmix wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> without making your calorie intake less than your expenditure you will not loose weight I've asked on HN a couple times in the past for citations that support this meme and haven't yet found a good source on this. The connection between caloric restriction and weight loss isn't as straight forward as people seem to think, despite that being the standard correlation pushed since the 1950s. Calories seems to be the c…

You go so far as to refer to the parent’s comment as a “meme” and then seem to agree with it by saying “I'm sure that would still ultimately contribute to weight loss” You are also correct - caloric deficit is not very sustainable long term for a large number of people. There is ongoing study to figure out why — for example, why some people are much less able to stick to a diet, or have constant food cravings, and so…

I think there is a huge mental aspect with feelings of hunger that needs to be learned how to be dealt with. I used to work a pretty labor intensive job, and you would get hungry in the shift and would just have to tough it out with your stomach raging all day. After all of that experience, I can fast at will without it putting me out really (helpful during long days of airport traveling where the food is overpriced anyhow).

That's nothing compared to what some people had to deal with e.g. surviving famines. That takes some serious mental fortitude, but I would imagine after that experience you'd be perfectly fine if dinner was served late. If you ever read Siddartha, there's this part where the protagonist learned how to fast with the Samanas in the forest, and not everyone knows how to deal with that sensation and accept it as just another sensation in life.

On the other hand, I know people who get into this bizarre state if they are hungry, not long after whatever their normal mealtime might be sometimes. People joke around about being "hangry" but its a real thing for some people. I can see how if you haven't learned how to accept the sensation of hunger, and all you know with that feeling of hunger through your life is to immediately satiate that sensation, sticking to a caloric deficit would not be easy.

Re: 1min high-intensity exercise 3x a week improves fitness as much as 3x aerobics (2016)

#408

Post by geraldwhen » Wed, Jan 25, 2023, 7:08 PM UTC

FartyMcFarter wrote: post #157

geraldwhen wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only person I know who got rabdo was not drinking enough water daily and supplementing creatine.

What does creatine have to do with it? If anything, creatine seems to reduce the risk, by reducing the amount of muscle damage: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5371628/#:~:tex... . "Overall, the available data strongly suggest that creatine supplementation prior to an endurance exercise challenge reduces muscle damage and inflammation in athletes, both of which would predict a lower risk of rhabdomyolysi…

Creatine is processed by the kidneys, which exacerbated or caused the rhabdo. The kidneys were too stressed to handle the muscle breakdown.

Re: 1min high-intensity exercise 3x a week improves fitness as much as 3x aerobics (2016)

#409

Post by glomgril » Wed, Jan 25, 2023, 7:14 PM UTC

If you are out of shape, do one set of pushups once a day (however many feels comfortable even if you have to cheat a bit). Start small, even just a couple, and gradually increase the reps over time. You will be blown away by the results after even 2-3 months.

Probably works best if you are scrawny to start with but I imagine any out of shape person would benefit.

Given it takes less than 1min per day, everyone has time for something like this.

Re: 1min high-intensity exercise 3x a week improves fitness as much as 3x aerobics (2016)

#410

Post by jcims » Wed, Jan 25, 2023, 7:15 PM UTC

caeril wrote: post #401

jcims wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could also be that the incredibly complex digestive system isn't just a food mulcher but is capable of moderating caloric intake based on any number of parameters.

Eat a high-fat meal or a can of Pringles with Orlistat, then you'll have an idea of what happens if your digestive system fails to extract calories from what you eat. Trust me, you'll know. No, our digestive tracts are extremely good at extracting any and all usable calories from our food. 100% of the time, when someone makes this claim, they are mis-estimating either their intake or expenditure, or not tracking for…

Best I can do is 95%.