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Big Tech Layoffs Are Hitting Diversity and Inclusion Jobs Hard

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Re: Big Tech Layoffs Are Hitting Diversity and Inclusion Jobs Hard

#112
post #20

I predicted this would likely happen at the start of the year. I don't think it was an accident that tech become one of the main industries pushing D&I over the last several years. Whatever your opinion is on D&I it's arguably not something a company would put significant investment or time into unless they had spare margin and cashflows. This isn't a political comment, just an observation as someone who works for a…

After writing this I figured I'd check our Yammer just to see what's happen today...

The top post is someone who's upset because they believe an employee has intentionally moved all the books about feminism and race in the office library to the top shelf where they are out of sight. They also suspect the same person has likely moved a Piers Morgan book down to eye level.

After some angry words they finish their post by explaining they were only able to make this observation because they are an individual of above-average height, and apologise for this fact before ending their post with kisses.

Re: Big Tech Layoffs Are Hitting Diversity and Inclusion Jobs Hard

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean honestly, you can't possibly think that just adding people of other gender / skin colors just magically improves profitability. There's clearly some lurking variables here that McKinsey purposefully ignored in order to draw this specific conclusion.

I believe viewpoint diversity adds value to product ideation, design, execution, etc.

[deleted]

Re: Big Tech Layoffs Are Hitting Diversity and Inclusion Jobs Hard

#114
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I advertised and solicited from as many diverse venues as I could find and still found hardly any qualified applicants. So if you were e.g. recruiting for SWE roles at an HBCU presumably there are hundreds of CS students there. Are you saying none were qualified? If so isn't that a problem with education/preparation?

> Are you saying none were qualified? If so isn't that a problem with education/preparation? Yes, in other words... a pipeline problem. When you have bars set in fields where outcomes are tangible (STEM), you cannot improve the situation by lowering the bar, you must improve the situation by improving the populace so more can get over the bar. This is a lot harder to do, and not possible to do in a way that juices th…

I think you're mixing up how people understand pipeline in this case. Generally the thinking is there aren't enough minorities, women, etc. going into STEM in the first place not that there are plenty but none meet the standards necessary to get a job.

Re: Big Tech Layoffs Are Hitting Diversity and Inclusion Jobs Hard

#115
post #61

DEI departments and projects have a fervor to them that is near religious: the core tenets are faith based and impossible to challenge scientifically. Challenge any DEI tenet and your are immediately met with threats of excommunication. Get in line or you're out. The thing is DEI efforts oftentimes mask comical understanding of history and blindingly gross racism. Personal anecdote: How do you deal with people who pr…

> Challenge any DEI tenet and your are immediately met with threats of excommunication. Get in line or you're out. The one that continually upsets me (as someone who grew up in a predominantly Hispanic community, is married to a Hispanic person, has Hispanic children, and speaks Spanish as a fluent second language and in the home) is the use of the term "LatinX" which has spread through the DEI community and now gene…

As a Hispanic PoC person, I agree 100% with you about LatinX. It's the result of white people with a high school understanding of Spanish trying to fix a language they really don't understand. The Spanish language is not broken and does not need to be fixed.

Re: Big Tech Layoffs Are Hitting Diversity and Inclusion Jobs Hard

#116

While there are 100% are issues and abuses of power due to how DEI is managed in the private sector, I find it annoying how these threads in HN always throw the baby out with the bathwater. There are successful diversity hiring programs and proactive management, but you don't hear about those as much because outrage sells. Hell, people from my background were underrepresented when I was working on the Hill and I wish…

I’ve found it’s impossible to have a fair and constructive conversation about diversity on HN.

Re: Big Tech Layoffs Are Hitting Diversity and Inclusion Jobs Hard

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tell them you identify as Latino?

I don't, though. And I see no point in any such gamesmanship. I'm a white man with Turkish and Scottish heritages, born in middle US, and am not Latino or Hispanic by birth, only by association in later life. While I participate in the culture, I am not of the culture, and would never claim to be. I have my own culture, which I also participate in and claim. This, in fact, is one of the major difficulties with DEI. M…

It's worse in minority languages, where the whole movement has been co-opted by well-meaning learners, who happen to share the nationality of the group who speaks the language natively and has kept it alive, calling native speakers bigots for stating their language doesn't work like English and to quit trying to translate English into it directly.

Not to mention all the other classism issues that said natives face at the hands of non-native learners/speakers, including accent discrimination when the others literally only use English phonemes.

And I'm not part of that language's native speaker group, I just recognise they should probably be included in stuff said about it, and try to respect what native speakers say, even if it's not how English works.

Re: Big Tech Layoffs Are Hitting Diversity and Inclusion Jobs Hard

#118
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but in my experience having been close to the decision making process on some of these it has a lot more to do with luck of the draw than anyone would care to admit. I'm sure this happens, but it's not been my experience working for healthy companies. Been through a few attrition rounds myself. The process has always been, every single time: identify low performers, find reasons to fight for them to stay (do they h…

I caveated my statement because my experience in this is obviously limited, I doubt anyone has a wide view of the industry but... > The process has always been, every single time: identify low performers, find reasons to fight for them to stay (do they have gifts the company isn't properly utilizing, etc.) Strongly doubt this is done effectively in anything but smaller organizations. Imagine an organization the size…

> Strongly doubt this is done effectively in anything but smaller organizations.

Larger organizations are just groups of smaller organizations. Some perform better than others. I work for a $4B corp, the small divisions I interact with generally get it right. Sure, you'll get an outlier from time to time that's mismanaged (and addressed once that's become clear). But it's usually not a systemic problem.

> Organizations pretty much never want to telegraph these kinds of moves in advance

Organizations don't "play around" with hiring and firing. Believe it or not, the executive team actually does care about employee morale. When you hire you need a plan to keep them, as it impacts employee morale and performance if you hire/fire on a whim. If a company treats it's people badly, it's a sign of a poorly run company, which usually doesn't end well. If you think this is your company, I recommend leaving and finding someplace better. They're out there.

Typically companies are "late" to hire until they are sure the employee is needed long term. During periods of growth, this means that companies are understaffed, and the existing employees have to working harder until its 100% clear the org simply needs more people. From my experience, it takes several months of consistent production overtime before management decides the short term spurt in orders isn't a one-off fluke and actually indicates long term business growth. Only then are new positions created, as the company reasonably believes these people are needed long term.

On the otherside, when it's time to fire, the signs are present for a while that there's been a downturn in business. But companies don't want to fire right away (due to employee morale, reasons above). They will discuss internally at the highest levels whether or not attrition is necessary, can it be avoided etc. Is this just a temporary drop in sales, or is this part of a longer term decline? Until a decision has been made, discussing this with rank and file just creates job anxiety, as no one knows what's going to happen. Once the decision has been made, it's typically executed quickly (that's why they're called executives).

There's a reason that parents don't discuss their problems with their children. Until a decision has been made to divorce, Mom and Dad typically don't tell the kids that they're having problems and might get a divorce. It just created unnecessary anxiety.

So you only hire if you think you can keep them. And you only fire as a last resort. This means that sometimes you're short-staffed and it's necessary for people to work overtime, and other times you've got too many people and you must right size to remain profitable (stay in business).

> Your second sentence even provides a perfect scenario around exactly the kind of randomness that comes into play

Sure, it's never gotten 100% right. There's randomness in everyone's day to day lives. This is why the management layer is so important, it's their job to get it right as much as possible. Every time you get it wrong you're potentially damaging the company.

We can't avoid randomness. Everyone takes a chance stepping outside their front door in the morning and driving to/from work. Companies deal with randomness as best they can, just like we do in our day to day lives. This is reality we're dealing with, not theory.

> High performer but working on a product the company has decided to de-prioritize? Bye.

Yes. If a company isn't making money on a product they have to cut the product. So what to do with the team?

Many times high performers are "found" positions in the company, as the company recognizes their talent is hard to come by. This is easily done when one side of the business needs people, while the other needs to be downsized.

But if the company is oversized in all departments, there's no place for the high performing talent to go. Its not fair to fire a "good performer on a successful product" just to have a position open for the high performer. Sometimes it happens, sometimes not, but guaranteed someone is hurt every time.

We've lost some talented people, in much needed positions, and been unable (due to hiring freeze) to hire a replacement or greatly increase compensation to get them to stay. As much as you want to keep talent, sometimes it's just impossible.

I've nearly always found it to be the case that high performing talent quickly lands on their feet. They are in demand, even if their former company can't use them. I'm hearing stories right now that talented people are getting jobs fast in spite of the recession and rounds of layoffs.

Lastly, personal agency is also involved here. Any job you take comes with risk. Everyone, talented or not, should weight the risks of the position being offered against the benefits being offered. A high paying job offer at disruptive new company may not actually be better than the lower paying job offered by stable company. Being a high performer doesn't guarantee job security, just makes it much more likely.

Re: Big Tech Layoffs Are Hitting Diversity and Inclusion Jobs Hard

#119
post #112
post #20

I predicted this would likely happen at the start of the year. I don't think it was an accident that tech become one of the main industries pushing D&I over the last several years. Whatever your opinion is on D&I it's arguably not something a company would put significant investment or time into unless they had spare margin and cashflows. This isn't a political comment, just an observation as someone who works for a…

After writing this I figured I'd check our Yammer just to see what's happen today... The top post is someone who's upset because they believe an employee has intentionally moved all the books about feminism and race in the office library to the top shelf where they are out of sight. They also suspect the same person has likely moved a Piers Morgan book down to eye level. After some angry words they finish their post…

They are just working that dominance hierarchy! University taught them well.

For their next trick, objecting to clapping emojis in Slack.

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