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Big Tech Layoffs Are Hitting Diversity and Inclusion Jobs Hard

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Re: Big Tech Layoffs Are Hitting Diversity and Inclusion Jobs Hard

#81

Post by turtlesdown11 »

AlbertCory wrote: post #59
turtlesdown11 wrote: post #27

https://www.mckinsey.com/business-functions/organization/our... > Gender diversity is correlated with both profitability and value creation. In our 2017 data set, we found a positive correlation between gender diversity on executive teams and both our measures of financial performance: top-quartile companies on executive-level gender diversity worldwide had a 21 percent likelihood of outperforming their fourth-quarti…

> In the original research, using 2014 diversity data, we found that companies in the top quartile for gender diversity on their executive teams were 15 percent more likely to experience above-average profitability than companies in the fourth quartile. In our expanded 2017 data set this number rose to 21 percent and continued to be statistically significant. For ethnic and cultural diversity, the 2014 finding was a…

> If you actually want to show something, do a longitudinal study: first of all, pick cohorts that match up in most other respects, then compare their relative performance within the cohort after increasing their DEI numbers. Or not doing so.

I agree these study parameters would yield much better data. The construction of such a study would probably prove challenging.

Re: Big Tech Layoffs Are Hitting Diversity and Inclusion Jobs Hard

#82

Post by gameman144 »

turtlesdown11 wrote: post #27

https://www.mckinsey.com/business-functions/organization/our... > Gender diversity is correlated with both profitability and value creation. In our 2017 data set, we found a positive correlation between gender diversity on executive teams and both our measures of financial performance: top-quartile companies on executive-level gender diversity worldwide had a 21 percent likelihood of outperforming their fourth-quarti…

I'd be curious whether DEI efforts can actually reproduce this, or whether this is just cargo cult wishful thinking.

For instance, maybe companies with a really relatable mission or an open mind at the executive level also tend to attract diverse candidates. Those former factors would explain both the success and the diversity.

If there were a study looking at companies with poor performance metrics who turned things around by pumping their diversity numbers, I'd be really interested in seeing that (since it'd show a nice casual link.)

Without that, it seems plausible that successful companies are the ones able to engage in DEI efforts, even if they don't improve performance, or that minority candidates prefer working at successful companies.

Re: Big Tech Layoffs Are Hitting Diversity and Inclusion Jobs Hard

#83

Post by brodouevencode »

Volundr wrote: post #56
brodouevencode wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US there are already laws against this. The company doesn't need DEI positions to enforce this.

People in charge of compliance are commonplace when it comes to regulations. It's a huge part of HRs job for example. Some regulations even require a specific compliance officer, such as the GDPR. "There is a law" is a pretty weak argument for why a position shouldn't exist. If anything it's an argument for why one should.

Fair point, but workplace discrimination is already under the purview of the HR department. Before there was ever a DEI department HR covered the same stuff. In fact, in many orgs DEI is a subset of HR.

The real question is there any evidence of DEI departments effecting change beyond what was already supplied previously. Anecdotally I haven't seen it, nor have I seen any studies backing it up (please supply those if you know of them). The only thing I have seen come of it is additional training every year which can be basically summed up to "play nice with others".

Re: Big Tech Layoffs Are Hitting Diversity and Inclusion Jobs Hard

#84

Post by mattnewton »

kneebonian wrote: post #26
scottiebarnes wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea of activists/politicians having any say in who companies hire disgusts me But does it disgust you when companies discriminate based on age/gender/sexual orientation/race/disability/religion/etc? Should corporations be accountable to society in some way, or do we trust them to "do the right thing"?

Isn't that already illegal to discriminate based on most of those things?

It’s illegal not to file your taxes but companies still hire accountants to make sure they do it, and also use strategies above and beyond the minimum prescribed by the law that benefit the company.

Seems to make sense that DEI departments could fill a similar role - make sure the company is in compliance with the law and then look for ways to go above and beyond it that benefit the company’s position in the market for talent.

Re: Big Tech Layoffs Are Hitting Diversity and Inclusion Jobs Hard

#85

Post by alephnerd »

While there are 100% are issues and abuses of power due to how DEI is managed in the private sector, I find it annoying how these threads in HN always throw the baby out with the bathwater.

There are successful diversity hiring programs and proactive management, but you don't hear about those as much because outrage sells. Hell, people from my background were underrepresented when I was working on the Hill and I wished there was more DEI in staffer hiring.

The bigger issue in my honest opinion is how companies treat HR as an amaphorous cost center. It's the same as non-tech companies that underinvest and treat IT like shit because they don't understand the function.

The lack of mutual respect across different domains and roles here on HN is jarring and honestly very toxic. This is sophmoric commentary that I honestly could simulate with a Naive Bayes language model (not even ChatGPT).

Re: Big Tech Layoffs Are Hitting Diversity and Inclusion Jobs Hard

#86

Post by turtlesdown11 »

throwaway23597 wrote: post #64
turtlesdown11 wrote: post #27

https://www.mckinsey.com/business-functions/organization/our... > Gender diversity is correlated with both profitability and value creation. In our 2017 data set, we found a positive correlation between gender diversity on executive teams and both our measures of financial performance: top-quartile companies on executive-level gender diversity worldwide had a 21 percent likelihood of outperforming their fourth-quarti…

I mean honestly, you can't possibly think that just adding people of other gender / skin colors just magically improves profitability. There's clearly some lurking variables here that McKinsey purposefully ignored in order to draw this specific conclusion.

I believe viewpoint diversity adds value to product ideation, design, execution, etc.

Re: Big Tech Layoffs Are Hitting Diversity and Inclusion Jobs Hard

#88

Post by turtlesdown11 »

poszlem wrote: post #53
turtlesdown11 wrote: post #27

https://www.mckinsey.com/business-functions/organization/our... > Gender diversity is correlated with both profitability and value creation. In our 2017 data set, we found a positive correlation between gender diversity on executive teams and both our measures of financial performance: top-quartile companies on executive-level gender diversity worldwide had a 21 percent likelihood of outperforming their fourth-quarti…

Do you believe those statistics enough to get rid of the laws that prevent discrimination? If the stats are true, then surely companies, who are known to value monetary gains above all else, would take care of the problem of lack of diversity based solely on their market performance.

Textbook strawman argument, congrats

Re: Big Tech Layoffs Are Hitting Diversity and Inclusion Jobs Hard

#89

Post by kenjackson »

tristor wrote: post #46
adamsmith143 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I advertised and solicited from as many diverse venues as I could find and still found hardly any qualified applicants. So if you were e.g. recruiting for SWE roles at an HBCU presumably there are hundreds of CS students there. Are you saying none were qualified? If so isn't that a problem with education/preparation?

> Are you saying none were qualified? If so isn't that a problem with education/preparation? Yes, in other words... a pipeline problem. When you have bars set in fields where outcomes are tangible (STEM), you cannot improve the situation by lowering the bar, you must improve the situation by improving the populace so more can get over the bar. This is a lot harder to do, and not possible to do in a way that juices th…

Exactly.

The solution I hinted at is to actually double-down on standardized testing. I taught test prep to HS'ers in poor schools in California in the past and there are a couple of things I noticed:

1. For kids who cared, I could raise their score dramatically. The College Board disputes this is possible, but I could do this pretty consistently over the course of a year. There were a non-trivial number of kids who didn't care and the results didn't apply to them at all.

2. In the course of my prep I drastically increased learning. And this isn't a direct corollary to (1), and actually somewhat surprised me. The same students I taught saw their course grades go up and felt more confident in school. I think in part because I was a relentless, but effective teacher (if I say so myself).

Oddly, this is going the opposite direction from what people are proposing now and that worries me. People underestimate how well some of these students can do. It's like when they used to say Blacks didn't have the intellect to play QB. We didn't dumb down the position. But because of how important the role is, and how meritocratic sports is, Black kids figured it out. Give them a chance to figure this out, with some of the right incentives. (Side note, I do think the College Board also makes this harder and there is at least some anecdotal data that they have biased the test against underrepresented minorities -- but even with all that, I'm still optimistic).

Regarding my original comment -- it wasn't an entry level SWE role. I'd be open to hiring someone out of college, but you rarely find ones with the level of embedded systems background we needed.

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