1min high-intensity exercise 3x a week improves fitness as much as 3x aerobics (2016) • Hacker News Board

Re: 1min high-intensity exercise 3x a week improves fitness as much as 3x aerobics (2016)

#351

Post by SketchySeaBeast » Wed, Jan 25, 2023, 5:04 PM UTC

smith7018 wrote: post #332

dr_dshiv wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> without making your calorie intake less than your expenditure you will not loose weight. I’ve never believed this — only because my weight is so consistent and my eating is not. My body must have a way to regulate the absorption of calories from the gut. When I have some insanely high calorie meal, my body doesn’t necessarily absorb all the calories. This seems easy to measure, so I must be wrong. Or…

I'm not sure what to tell you besides it's true. I did crossfit for years without monitoring my diet and was always disappointed with how little I felt my body changed. I monitored my caloric intake for two months and was shocked to see how much of a difference it made. Also, weight gain/loss should be measured on a weekly scale rather than daily. You might feel like your eating isn't consistent but it could be on a…

Yeah, day by day it's not important - how full your bowels and bladder or how much water you're retaining are going to effect you more than your 24 hours of weight loss. It's a waste to sample that often and can be discouraging for no reason. It's really week by week and using that data to calculate a trend.

Re: 1min high-intensity exercise 3x a week improves fitness as much as 3x aerobics (2016)

#352

Post by mister_mister » Wed, Jan 25, 2023, 5:10 PM UTC

snowwrestler wrote: post #340

mister_mister wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question how do we explain why people without insulin are able to stay thin, while eating massive amounts of calories with the CICO model. Because that case is breaking the model. Since your stating that eating once a day is the same as eating once a day. Would you have any sources for that claim? Did you know there is allot of research going into the effects of intermittent fasting[0]? If you would search for OM…

You can’t break the “model” as it is basic thermodynamics. If a diabetic is consuming many calories but also excreting many calories, that is still calories in and calories out.

That's the point it will not lead to weight gain. But according to CICO they should become fat, but they won't. And if this is possible by not having one hormone. That is quite a big discovery. The human body is way more complex then one hormone. And fat gain can be due to many reasons, another hormone could be cortisol, bad sleep, Obesogens[0].

If CICO does not factor in what is not stored or digested. Therefor it's a flawed model. Therefor it would be better to look at what is working, and wath was working before we got unto the low fat craze. In the 1950 up to 1980 bodybuilders where eating low carb high protein diets. Everyone was thin back then, just now we are returning to knowlegde.

But the thing is according to latest science obesity the focus is not on CICO anymore. Would be great if more people would be willing to conduct their own N=1 studies and try low carb dieet, keto, or intermittent fasting. It works the same way by keeping insulin low. It might do wonders.

[0]https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/what-are-obesogens

[1]https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/stop-counting...

Re: 1min high-intensity exercise 3x a week improves fitness as much as 3x aerobics (2016)

#353

Post by yamtaddle » Wed, Jan 25, 2023, 5:12 PM UTC

dmix wrote: post #159

cycomanic wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While you are somewhat dismissive about the results, they really only confirm many other studies which found that HIT (High intensity training, what is discussed in the article) training achieves the same effects as much longer endurance training at much shorter times. This has been found for both non-athletes and athletes and in fact training for professional endurance athletes has drastically changed in the last 5-…

> without making your calorie intake less than your expenditure you will not loose weight I've asked on HN a couple times in the past for citations that support this meme and haven't yet found a good source on this. The connection between caloric restriction and weight loss isn't as straight forward as people seem to think, despite that being the standard correlation pushed since the 1950s. Calories seems to be the c…

> I've asked on HN a couple times in the past for citations that support this meme and haven't yet found a good source on this.

I think I finally figured out why I hate CICO so much: it's usually presented in a motte-and-bailey style. It's used to dismiss more-complex advice or observations and presented as if it's all you need to look at to model weight loss and gain to a useful level, then when it's pointed out that the terms are so vague, hard to actually measure, and don't address the effects of feedback loops on metabolism, that it's like trying to model the behavior of aircraft with gravity but without lift, and therefore damn near useless, the fallback is "well it's still technically true, blah blah blah". Sure, it's technically true, it's just... not very useful on its own, and constantly bringing it up as if it's all that matters is grating.

Re: 1min high-intensity exercise 3x a week improves fitness as much as 3x aerobics (2016)

#354

Post by Dwedit » Wed, Jan 25, 2023, 5:13 PM UTC

petesergeant wrote: post #23

It's 8 minutes, not one minute The people in the study were out of shape to start with The improved measures were insulin sensitivity index, peak oxygen uptake, and "skeletal muscle mitochondrial content" No change in body mass In conclusion, if you're out of shape, you can improve a limited number of fitness measures just as much doing 3x8 minutes of higher intensity exercise as much 3×45m less intense exercise over…

Seven Minute Abs

Re: 1min high-intensity exercise 3x a week improves fitness as much as 3x aerobics (2016)

#355

Post by laserlight » Wed, Jan 25, 2023, 5:16 PM UTC

jonnycoder wrote: post #339

Frost1x wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The question how do we explain why people without insulin are able to stay thin, while eating massive amounts of calories with the CICO model. Because that case is breaking the model. To my knowledge this doesn't break the CICO model. The disease (e.g. type 1 diabetes) reduces or eliminates production of insulin which triggers metabolism of glucose. Since you're metabolizing less (or no) glucose, you're not gaining…

You just proved his point. If two people eat 10,000 calories and the one with type 1 diabetes is passing most of it as waste but the other person is storing that in the form of glucose and fat, then CICO is broken in that example. But like you say, account for such factors and the principles hold true; how do we know there aren't factors yet to be discovered?

I find this interpretation of “calories in” very uncharitable. We certainly don't argue over whether eating coal makes one fat. Coal has lots of calories, but we're interested in metabolically available ones. If type 1 diabetes people cannot metabolize glucose, then it doesn't count as in.

Re: 1min high-intensity exercise 3x a week improves fitness as much as 3x aerobics (2016)

#356

Post by scotty79 » Wed, Jan 25, 2023, 5:17 PM UTC

hooverd wrote: post #326

acuozzo wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is not a meme but basic physics. The issue is: How are we defining calories IN? Consider the extreme example of having a parasitic worm living in your digestive system. Is IN == [food passing mouth] or is IN == [food not being ingested by worm(s)]? Now consider "normal" digestive flora. How are we defining IN here?

Basic physics says a human can live on a cup of gasoline a day.

Sure you can! You just need to figure a way to digest it. Ask chemistry.

Re: 1min high-intensity exercise 3x a week improves fitness as much as 3x aerobics (2016)

#357

Post by yamtaddle » Wed, Jan 25, 2023, 5:18 PM UTC

MacsHeadroom wrote: post #289

syzarian wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If metabolic rate changes due to caloric restriction then this doesn’t negate the view that basic physics dictates that calories in minus calories out determines weight loss. It just means that a corresponding change to calories out can occur with caloric restriction. It is a physical reality that calories in minus calories out determines weight loss. It is also a reality that adhering to this might be very difficult…

Nobody is contesting the physical reality of CICO; what they are contesting is that the "calories out" section of the diet is as easily controlled as previously thought. I'm supposedly on a 1500 calorie deficit, eating ~1300-1500 calories a day and burning ~3000, according to my fitbit. But I'm only losing about 0.5lbs per week. My conclusion is that I'm really only burning 2000 calories despite HIIT 3x/week, strengt…

I did a strict 1400 calorie per day diet for a few months in college. Zero cheating. Also kicked up aerobic activity a ton.

Losses were at like 5-10% the rate they "should have" been. Totally worthless.

Meanwhile weight lifting has always worked for me a large multiple as well as it "should", for weight loss, if you go by calculators that try to figure how many calories an activity burns.

I reckon that in both cases those two approaches must be having large (and opposite) effects on my resting metabolic rate.

Re: 1min high-intensity exercise 3x a week improves fitness as much as 3x aerobics (2016)

#358

Post by mister_mister » Wed, Jan 25, 2023, 5:18 PM UTC

Frost1x wrote: post #315

mister_mister wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question how do we explain why people without insulin are able to stay thin, while eating massive amounts of calories with the CICO model. Because that case is breaking the model. Since your stating that eating once a day is the same as eating once a day. Would you have any sources for that claim? Did you know there is allot of research going into the effects of intermittent fasting[0]? If you would search for OM…

>The question how do we explain why people without insulin are able to stay thin, while eating massive amounts of calories with the CICO model. Because that case is breaking the model. To my knowledge this doesn't break the CICO model. The disease (e.g. type 1 diabetes) reduces or eliminates production of insulin which triggers metabolism of glucose. Since you're metabolizing less (or no) glucose, you're not gaining…

I'm afraid that is incorrect, type 1 diabetes still have glucose metabolism, with diabetes type 2 glucose metabolism could be impaired but with type 1 that is not the case.

What has changed is that without insulin glucose will stay in their blood damaging organs and veins.

Insulin signals to cells take up glucose and other nutrients, first organs like the liver, then the muscles.

More information in the link from healthline. https://www.healthline.com/health/diabetes/insulin-effects-o...

Re: 1min high-intensity exercise 3x a week improves fitness as much as 3x aerobics (2016)

#359

Post by scotty79 » Wed, Jan 25, 2023, 5:19 PM UTC

jononomo wrote: post #273

tarsinge wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not a meme but basic physics. This is how you do your cut and bulk cycles to lose and gain exactly a planned amount of weight. My base energy expenditure is relatively low at around 1800 kcal. If I eat 2000 kcal I will gain around 1 kg in 35 days (1 kg of fat is a 7000 kcal surplus), and similarly I could lose 1 by eating 1600 kcal. For finding sources look up "TDEE". Weight loss is complicated because of the…

I can't stand this "it's just physics" talking point when it comes to calories and weight loss. Why don't you try consuming exactly as many calories of gasoline as your body burns each day and then tell me whether you lose or gain any weight?

Basic physics 100% tells you you won't gain weight in that case.

Re: 1min high-intensity exercise 3x a week improves fitness as much as 3x aerobics (2016)

#360

Post by TheRealPomax » Wed, Jan 25, 2023, 5:20 PM UTC

epistemer wrote: post #348

itsoktocry wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In conclusion, if you're out of shape, you can improve a limited number of fitness measures just as much doing 3x8 minutes of higher intensity exercise as much 3×45m less intense exercise over 12 weeks This seems like a pretty negative reading. How about: Sedentary people (who have the most issues and highest healthcare costs), can see significant improvements in health by exercising for a fraction of time normally…

Out of shape people don't stick to high intensity training. It takes awhile to get your lactic clearance up. Most people will quit after a few workouts because literally feeling like you are going to throw up is not fun. It is January so the gym is loaded with the New Years resolution crowd still. Most the people who started doing HIT on Jan 1st will quit by mid Feb. It is almost like clockwork and why I always reset…

Remember to make that bias explicit, also in part for yourself: "Out of shape people who join a gym don't stick to high intensity training".

There is a huge difference between killing yourself over your lunch break/before dinner at home, and then taking a quick shower, and having to cut more than an hour out of your day because you need to drive to the gym, kill yourself for a very short period of time, then take several minutes to recover enough to feel you can safely drive home as a gross sweaty mess because you're far too uncomfortable showering around a bunch of strangers at the gym, and then do that multiple times a week. That's not just a commitment, that's a complete daily habit overhaul. Your life is now dominated by having to go to the gym.

Folks who decide "yes, I think I can spend 15 minutes a day, three days a week, on this" at home, with some expert advise from reputable fitness coaches who run also youtube channels, without any of the time investment, inconvenience, and complete upending of daily routines that comes with attending a gym, might have a different success rate (and we'll never hear from them. If they keep it up, they just get in a bit better shape and move on with their lives).