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The Google layoffs are about personal ambition and poor leadership

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201–210 of 292 posts

Re: The Google layoffs are about personal ambition and poor leadership

#201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other thing that would probably help engineers is that business and management is extremely difficult, in a way more than engineering, and that whether or not a particular person or decision is good or bad is often times not something that many engineers have the information or capability to evaluate. I'm a cynic about business and management, not a manager and will not be one, am an engineer, also partake in the…

The product suffers when resource priority shifts in the wrong direction. Often times management infighting and empire building becomes the business priority and the actual product is a secondary evil that needs to limp along to fund the empires.

The right and wrong direction are up for debate. Everything is an opportunity cost, so if the product is not successful or making money, then shifting resources away from it to something more productive may sink the product faster, but might not have been the wrong for the business.

I've not known many executive decisions like that (right or wrong) being made without any input from technical side of the business, perhaps not Joe shitkicker in the trenches but technical leads. and I've very rarely encountered a technical person who concedes that their project or product or team should be given fewer resources. Almost always the complaint is that if only they were given more resources, they could have been successful, which rarely understands business and market realities and often confuses cause and effect.

And the egos and empire building and infighting and so on are definitely a thing that happens, and they are definitely not restricted to management. Engineers and technical people are some of the worst offenders!

I'm not trying to absolve executives and managers here, but I do think some engineers need better perspective and yes some empathy with the business side. Almost no new engineer needs to be told that their leaders are poor -- they'll hear it from their coworkers in their second week on the job and continuously after that until they retire. What I've rarely if ever heard is "damn we shipped a real piece of crap here, it must be embarrassing for our executives and sales people who have to sell it and answer to our customers, we could have done much better".

Re: The Google layoffs are about personal ambition and poor leadership

#202
post #82

You work for google because you make insane money and have cachet you can take anywhere and get hired instantly. Hell, you can pull in 10 million funding for your startup idea if you like. Or just retire, get a boat, go sailing. Of course all of this had to go bad. Come on now. Stop whining already. I work in the IT sewer fighting rats. I will always have work. I'm filthy and I smell bad, but I'm doing fine, and no,…

Mate these people aren't your enemy no matter how much you think they make compared to you. You think it was only blue haired 300k social media managers that got layed off or something? There's sand pounding IT guys there that got layed off too, I know for a fact cause some are my friends. Yeah it was a Google job so it was lux but they were running fiber and getting called in at 2am cause some clueless executive's e…

If they have real skills they can find employment else where.

They are whining because they know they were being over compensated at Google and that they are unlikely to be able to find another job that pays so much money with so little effort.

They're not my enemies but they're not my friends. I don't feel sympathy for them. If anything, they should feel sympathy for me and give me some of that extra cash they've been getting. Why do they deserve it more than I do? I can do "nothing at all" just as well as they did.

Re: The Google layoffs are about personal ambition and poor leadership

#203
post #198
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing "privileged" about working at Google. It's a job, like anything else in tech.

Earning $200k/yr without doing anything special is a privilige very few people in the world get to enjoy. I have no sympathy for these people. Learn a real skill and do something useful. Before you jump and say they do have a skill: why are they whining then? People who have skills don't whine when they are laid off. They just go and find another place to work. The fact that they need to whine so loudly about it tell…

And I bet you think your $50K/$100K/$150K or whatever else salary is perfectly justified and you are adding great value to the world. Why is that? Or will you admit that you are privileged as well?

Re: The Google layoffs are about personal ambition and poor leadership

#204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are likely about to find out. In the end this could be a good thing, shake out a lot the bootcampers and leave the people who like to code. On the downside, people like me like to code and also rest n' vest. :/

You're assuming that management can and does differentiate between the two and only fires the sitters. Life experience tells me this is highly unlikely.

If that is true (managers cannot filter for sitters), then I know which wins: random layoffs vs. surgical firings at scale

Re: The Google layoffs are about personal ambition and poor leadership

#205

You work for google because you make insane money and have cachet you can take anywhere and get hired instantly. Hell, you can pull in 10 million funding for your startup idea if you like. Or just retire, get a boat, go sailing. Of course all of this had to go bad. Come on now. Stop whining already. I work in the IT sewer fighting rats. I will always have work. I'm filthy and I smell bad, but I'm doing fine, and no,…

I love how all the W2s be fighting against themselves as though they aren't all in the same position. Yes, there's a big difference between $300k and $30k. It doesn't feel quite so big, though, when one medical bill can bankrupt you, regardless. Or you're living paycheck to paycheck because school cost you $150k (plus interest). We all have a lot more in common than not. Hard is hard and people matter. Those laid off got a bad deal, period, because it has less to do with actual "merit" and more to do with at-will is a bad deal.

Re: The Google layoffs are about personal ambition and poor leadership

#206
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a very similar observation. My belief is that when you have a group of extremely smart and hard working people competing for promotions, the ones focusing on managing perception and relationships will do better than those focusing on the business or product.

Big companies are all about politics, all the time, in my experience. Smart business/product decisions require many quarters, sometimes years, of discipline and commitment to pay off. Whereas a shorter term focus results in less headache, possible promotion, and guaranteed bonuses. If/when the company craters, you can just bail. The sign of a great executive is somebody who empowers their organization to think ahead…

If the executive isn’t great, then yes the company won’t be great either. That, however, begs the question why you (one) would work there. Why accept low standards, average colleagues, meaningless work.

Re: The Google layoffs are about personal ambition and poor leadership

#207
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Observing super priviliged people whining about how unfair it is to get laid off is really something.

The priviliged were fired by the super priviliged. The middle class VS upper class is a perfectly legitimate conflict. Suppose you were are from a lower class, surely the middle class has more interests in common with you than the capital-class does?

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Re: The Google layoffs are about personal ambition and poor leadership

#208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Labor doesn't have that privilege robinhood.com says you're incorrect.

How many Robinhood users have made more than pocket change without losing it all in a subsequent gamble? And of those who did, how many are not already at an upper income bracket?

Obviously you realize that investing in stocks is risky. Risk is the flip side of making investment gains. Anyone who invests in stocks takes a risk that it tanks.

No risk => no gains

Re: The Google layoffs are about personal ambition and poor leadership

#209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But what labor did they contribute? I.e. you're positing the "Labor Theory of Value", which is the basis of Marxism. The LToV errs in assigning zero value to risk-taking and the fact that some people are far more productive than others.

Is it any more in error than equating market price with value?

Nobody has ever found a better way. What you're willing to pay for something determines its value to you.

Re: The Google layoffs are about personal ambition and poor leadership

#210

I'll say something I wish someone told me in my 20's: most leadership/upper management is poor. I've worked at FAANGs, a unicorn, and currently @ a company that recently IPO'd. Most people in product leadership neither really understand how to make original ideas that effect the product at a high level or the technical details of the product, their responsibility is to be good stewards of a certain revenue stream and…

I remember Obama talking about this. I'll (poorly) paraphrase:

'When I first got into politics, I thought it would be like the rest of life. You know, when you see a great NFL player, he's a lot better than the college guys, who are a lot better than the high school guys. Same with pianists. The guys in the concerts are some of the best of the best. But that wasn't true in politics. The people that were really good at politics had no bearing on being senators or dog catchers. It was all a mixed bag.'

My apologies for butchering that.

But, I think that management is a lot like that. Peter Principle, yadda yadda yadda. We all know. But it's the expectation that your boss knows anything that really gets you. Gotta stop expecting your 'superiors' to know how to fog a mirror.

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