Where would India be without their glorious scammers?
Evidence that Adani Group has engaged in stock manipulation and accounting fraud
121–130 of 230 posts
Re: Evidence that Adani Group has engaged in stock manipulation and accounting fraud
#122If these companies assets or stocks go to zero or are locked due to fraud or something that makes the actual public stocks untradable, how do you get out of a short position? Borrowing and selling the stock means you can’t get it back to return to the original owner, and buying put options means you can’t sell the stock to the contract holder. Do you have to get out before it gets completely vaporized?
Since these guys are professional investors I assume they have access to more complex financial instruments they can use for a short position. Maybe the company being vaporized is always a risk of shorting though, not a finance guy so I have no idea.
> the company being vaporized is always a risk of shorting
why is that a risk tho? If you shorted something, the money is already in your hands (aka, you "sell" short presumably, where you make a buck selling it now, and have to put up cash in the future to make the short whole).
If in the future, the company vaporized, then wouldn't you no longer owe the shorted stock?
Re: Evidence that Adani Group has engaged in stock manipulation and accounting fraud
#123I started reading but couldn't get my sleepy brain around how Adani manipulated the stocks. Sure, the valuations are astronomical but doesn't indicate that Adanis themselves are behind the rise? Can someone please post a TLDR?
As far as I understand, an overwhelming majority of the stock of the companies are not up for trade on the exchange but rather held by offshore entities in violation of the rules which makes it trivial to manipulate the price of the stock. These entities are owned by Adani or his associates.
Re: Evidence that Adani Group has engaged in stock manipulation and accounting fraud
#124A few items that did not make it into the list: 1) Adani is very close to the current ruling party and the PM - deploying his extensive business network and assets (in various forms) to help get the PM elected (2014) and then re-elected. A bit of googling will reveal the vast scale of politico-corporate nexus between these two - extending all the way back to when they were chums in Gujarat - the Indian state of the P…
The article has lots of factual arguments going. But it misses the 1) point you mentioned. Regardless of whatever people like to believe, that guy isn't going crash and burn, go bankrupt or anything like that. It's fairly simple for the government to bail him out. They already did that to Anil Ambani. It doesn't even have to be a direct payout, there are always 'projects' you can give and pay them some 1000% extra mo…
> It doesn't even have to be a direct payout, there are always 'projects' you can give and pay them some 1000% extra money compared what it would otherwise cost. In other words a government(tax funded) bailout is easily doable and will be done, when the need arises. In many ways the party is just giving money to itself(Electoral bonds).
I'm reminded of this: https://www.economist.com/asia/2022/12/20/can-indias-richest... / https://archive.is/zPgHY
> Many of the slum’s thousands of cottage industries, which churn out textiles, leather and metal goods by the truckload, will also be relocated within Dharavi’s boundaries, even if they may have to downsize. Those considered to be polluting will be excluded. Whatever former slumland remains will be for Mr Adani. Superbly located on three suburban railway lines, an upcoming metro line and adjacent to Mumbai’s prime commercial district, it could be worth 30,000-40,000 rupees ($360-480) a square foot at today’s rates, reckons Gulam Zia of Knight Frank India, a property firm.
Re: Evidence that Adani Group has engaged in stock manipulation and accounting fraud
#125Earlier quoted context omitted.
Since these guys are professional investors I assume they have access to more complex financial instruments they can use for a short position. Maybe the company being vaporized is always a risk of shorting though, not a finance guy so I have no idea.
> the company being vaporized is always a risk of shorting why is that a risk tho? If you shorted something, the money is already in your hands (aka, you "sell" short presumably, where you make a buck selling it now, and have to put up cash in the future to make the short whole). If in the future, the company vaporized, then wouldn't you no longer owe the shorted stock?
The issue is one of margin calling, and other institutions being unwilling to lend you infinite amounts of money.
Even if your investment strategy is sound, if in the short term, you on paper owe stock that is "worth" billions of dollars, the institutions that you are owning this paper billions of dollars too, could be unwilling to just trust that you will be able to pay it.
Thus, they bake in contractual provisions, such as margin calls, which require you to automatically sell/buy the stock back, if you ever reach certain loss limits. Thus, forcing you to accept the loss now, even if your long term strategy is hypothetically profitable.
Or, at least that is the simplest/most common ways that this work. I am sure that margin calls are more complicated than that, for large financial institutions.
Re: Evidence that Adani Group has engaged in stock manipulation and accounting fraud
#126Earlier quoted context omitted.
I used to work at a car part store and the majority of the staff was teenagers looking to get into the car world (either future mechanics, or car parts managers) but they WAY under paid us for the type of work. Repair shops looking for specialty parts that someone with mechanics experience should really be looking for, not some teenager asking "whats a brake rotor?". We had a revolving door of workers and our custome…
I find it interesting how quickly people will defend their own exploitation.
It was a good opportunity for me since I had nothing much to offer most employers. It was between that or unemployed.
Re: Evidence that Adani Group has engaged in stock manipulation and accounting fraud
#127Wow. Adani is super scummy, and from research when they were starting construction on a big mine in Australia we knew they were structuring their tax affairs to not pay any tax here [1], but all this is something else. They have been suing a climate activist here for millions of dollars, and as part of it they had private investigators following him, his wife, and his children , including photographing his children w…
And despite the obviousness of the tax structuring and other, worse, scummy behaviour, the Australian Government at the time was determined to push ahead with clearing the path for Adani to operate what would have been one of largest, if not the largest, mines in Australia. Infuriating.
That same government is still in power. It is the Labor government in Queensland, for anybody that is wondering.
Re: Evidence that Adani Group has engaged in stock manipulation and accounting fraud
#128Earlier quoted context omitted.
The article has lots of factual arguments going. But it misses the 1) point you mentioned. Regardless of whatever people like to believe, that guy isn't going crash and burn, go bankrupt or anything like that. It's fairly simple for the government to bail him out. They already did that to Anil Ambani. It doesn't even have to be a direct payout, there are always 'projects' you can give and pay them some 1000% extra mo…
> It doesn't even have to be a direct payout, there are always 'projects' you can give and pay them some 1000% extra money compared what it would otherwise cost. In other words a government(tax funded) bailout is easily doable and will be done, when the need arises. In many ways the party is just giving money to itself(Electoral bonds). I'm reminded of this: https://www.economist.com/asia/2022/12/20/can-indias-riches…
India's case is unfortunately a lot more worse. The reason why this sort of corruption gets an easy pass is because the public is not necessarily against corruption. They like to imagine themselves as temporarily embarrassed 'millionaires' type of section. While the discussion is always on the lines corruption being bad, its only used in the context of looking better.
Pretty much everyone wants a government job, or any job where they can make money through bribes. Major Indian cities run dozens of coaching class cram schools to prep people for civil services jobs. Becoming corrupt is an aspirational thing in India. This is an elephant in the room nobody wants to discuss. Your ordinary Indian walking on the street deeply aspires to be corrupt. Only thing next to this is the desire for managerial jobs in private firms. Because this is how you get by life giving orders and not doing any work.
The only reason why the protests against the previous governments was so intense was not because of corruption. The overall polarising movement that started in the 1980s from the destruction of Babri Masjid means there is a long running and developing trend among India's electoral masses to consolidate on the lines of religion. This means other things aren't all that important. This also means to win elections, you need money from all these big corporate payers. Their corruption goes ignored, and in many is even perfectly acceptable.
Re: Evidence that Adani Group has engaged in stock manipulation and accounting fraud
#129Earlier quoted context omitted.
I find it interesting how quickly people will defend their own exploitation.
It was a good opportunity for me since I had nothing much to offer most employers. It was between that or unemployed.
I understand that but it doesn’t justify why it had to be a bad work environment.
Re: Evidence that Adani Group has engaged in stock manipulation and accounting fraud
#130He's too big to fail status in India, so it'll be interesting to see how their short position unfolds. They can keep the scam going for much longer than Hindenburg can keep their short I imagine.
According to Wikipedia Adani is in with Modi, the current Indian prime minster who likes to play favourites. Thus he could get quite a bit of protection at home. But that may not protect him from a market run...
It can. Indian Govt protects/can intervene through LIC India which invests in companies like this. In the past during major downturns, LIC with its huge cash pile acted as a backstop.