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How the Xbox 360 knows if your hard drive is genuine

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Re: How the Xbox 360 knows if your hard drive is genuine

#141

Post by capableweb »

Waterluvian wrote: post #133
capableweb wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love the newest entrant to the console wars, who decided to just run their game store on a Linux computer, optimize the UX a bit and make it all work great with its chosen hardware. Currently maybe a bit underpowered, but shows great promise and I believe the Steam Deck has a bright future in front of it.

The Steam Deck has sold fewer than 1% the number of Switches sold, which tells me there is far more to selling a console than the technology. Well, that’s an obvious statement, but I think many of us tech people commonly under-appreciate all the “non-engineering” components to making a product successful. I think “optimize the UX a bit” is what they did, and it falls very woefully short of what they need. Especially…

It just recently became available to purchase without a waitlist, they are still learning about hardware production, supply chains and other things they haven't done at the same scale before. Give it some time, especially when comparing to Nintendo who've been doing it for decades.

Re: How the Xbox 360 knows if your hard drive is genuine

#142

Post by yellowapple »

kevingadd wrote: post #102
EMIRELADERO wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I want the client to not be able to hack the game experience for other users.

This is only possible for server-controlled experiences, and it doesn't stop people from botting and aimhacking. Basically unworkable for action games.

And yet there are plenty of action games that remain fun to play while running on platforms that ain't locked down tighter than a jelly donut stash in a weight loss clinic. Botting and aimhacking do happen, but apparently not with sufficient frequency to be a problem.

Re: How the Xbox 360 knows if your hard drive is genuine

#143

Post by Waterluvian »

caslon wrote: post #140
Waterluvian wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Steam Deck has sold fewer than 1% the number of Switches sold, which tells me there is far more to selling a console than the technology. Well, that’s an obvious statement, but I think many of us tech people commonly under-appreciate all the “non-engineering” components to making a product successful. I think “optimize the UX a bit” is what they did, and it falls very woefully short of what they need. Especially…

The Switch is the fifth best selling console of all time. That's not at all a fair comparison, especially given the difference in price point and how long the Switch has been on the market. On the other hand, it's plausible that the Steam Deck could hit within 50% of Vita, the Wii U or Gamecube, which is amazing for Valve's second push into the console market, and immensely profitable, given Valve owns pretty much th…

I think it’s also not fair to compare it to commercially failed consoles like the Wii U or Game Cube.

I just picked the closest analog: a modern handheld that can be plugged into a TV.

Re: How the Xbox 360 knows if your hard drive is genuine

#144

Post by jchw »

Waterluvian wrote: post #133
capableweb wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love the newest entrant to the console wars, who decided to just run their game store on a Linux computer, optimize the UX a bit and make it all work great with its chosen hardware. Currently maybe a bit underpowered, but shows great promise and I believe the Steam Deck has a bright future in front of it.

The Steam Deck has sold fewer than 1% the number of Switches sold, which tells me there is far more to selling a console than the technology. Well, that’s an obvious statement, but I think many of us tech people commonly under-appreciate all the “non-engineering” components to making a product successful. I think “optimize the UX a bit” is what they did, and it falls very woefully short of what they need. Especially…

Huh? I don't even think there Are official Steam Deck sales numbers. The best I can find was that they shipped over 1 million last October, not sold. But that was actually not long after they BEGAN shipping units. Not only that, but we're comparing it to the Switch, which is one of THE best selling game consoles ever. However, in its first year, IIRC, it actually "only" sold around 10 million units. That suggests that in its first year, the Steam Deck sold at least around 10% of what the Switch sold (although the deck was a lot more supply constrained, so it may have been higher if not for that.)

Since Valve doesn't share actual numbers, or at least has not done so yet, it's really hard to judge, but I think you're painting a picture that is at least a bit too pessimistic. I don't know if Valve actually expected to outsell stalwart console vendors, but I would actually guess they DID outsell the PS Vita's first year. That's really not too bad for a foray into a saturated market with a somewhat niche and admittedly even somewhat immature product.

Steam Deck probably has a bright future, but I'm most interested to hear if they had any success breaking into the market in Asia, as it seemed like that was a big push for them and probably generally one of the hardest markets for Valve/Steam, for a variety of different reasons. I have to guess the sales numbers in North America are pretty good based on how quickly we went through the preorders.

Re: How the Xbox 360 knows if your hard drive is genuine

#145

Post by SanjayMehta »

psychphysic wrote: post #101
jchw wrote: post #56

Microsoft really seemed to be ahead of the curve with console security. They really thought this through back in 2005 or so, to the point where clearly, they knew people would hack the drives to rewrite the serial number. It's probably for the best that they never actually did anything about the knowledge that gave them, but they clearly stayed a step ahead of the game. As much as I hate it, their actions show a grea…

I don't get this. Hacking was huge on the 360, as was piracy that JTAG thing using the cooler runner and browning out the processor after slowing it, there were multiple mod chips and finally the ODEs coming out the wazhoo. The funny thing about security is it's about the weakest links they find. So you can harden link A as much as you want if link B is a dud all the extra work on A was wasted energy. What's most imp…

PS3 had Linux, until Sony pushed an update which killed it off. It was also trivial to upgrade the hard drive.

Re: How the Xbox 360 knows if your hard drive is genuine

#146

Post by blibble »

jchw wrote: post #56

Microsoft really seemed to be ahead of the curve with console security. They really thought this through back in 2005 or so, to the point where clearly, they knew people would hack the drives to rewrite the serial number. It's probably for the best that they never actually did anything about the knowledge that gave them, but they clearly stayed a step ahead of the game. As much as I hate it, their actions show a grea…

I think they focused on it somewhat more after the 8 or so huge amateur security flaws on the original Xbox

Re: How the Xbox 360 knows if your hard drive is genuine

#148

Post by aftbit »

psychphysic wrote: post #101
jchw wrote: post #56

Microsoft really seemed to be ahead of the curve with console security. They really thought this through back in 2005 or so, to the point where clearly, they knew people would hack the drives to rewrite the serial number. It's probably for the best that they never actually did anything about the knowledge that gave them, but they clearly stayed a step ahead of the game. As much as I hate it, their actions show a grea…

I don't get this. Hacking was huge on the 360, as was piracy that JTAG thing using the cooler runner and browning out the processor after slowing it, there were multiple mod chips and finally the ODEs coming out the wazhoo. The funny thing about security is it's about the weakest links they find. So you can harden link A as much as you want if link B is a dud all the extra work on A was wasted energy. What's most imp…

> What's shocking is Sony knew this from the PS2 era and gave it up! This applies to the whole early XBox story. Microsoft learns the right lessons... Sony learns the wrong ones.

XBox vs PS2: XBox was faster, but PS2 launched earlier, was cheaper, and had more games, so won the generation.

XBox 360 vs PS3: Sony reacts to Microsoft by making the PS3 more powerful than the 360 and more expensive. Microsoft reacts by getting more games and really doubling down on Halo (the biggest draw to XBox back then). XBox wins the generation.

Note: this is from memory, didn't check sources!

Re: How the Xbox 360 knows if your hard drive is genuine

#149

Post by anonymousiam »

Gigachad wrote: post #132
Teknoman117 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Dell has its own problems these days. I am honestly very annoyed that my 2019 XPS 15 will refuse to negotiate anything higher than 65W over USB-C PD on a non-Dell charger. Their dock does 130W, yet every third party dock, brick, or monitor I use it refuses to exceed 65W.

The whole windows market has been an absolute dumpster fire lately. The "modern standby" issue is infuriating. In a year or two I think the Macbook might honestly be the best linux laptop you can buy. I've got Asahi set up on my M1 and it's borderline usable now. Just waiting on thunderbolt and power management to be done and I could work with this.

I would love to agree with you, were it not for this:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34504752

https://www.vice.com/en/article/xgybq7/apple-macbook-activat...

Re: How the Xbox 360 knows if your hard drive is genuine

#150

Post by whatatita »

cmdrk wrote: post #147

The old dredged up Anandtech article is referring to the price of 3.5" disks, but the 360 used something smaller, probably 2.5". An off-the-shelf laptop drive would've been a bit more expensive and a bit more comparable to the $99 that Microsoft was charging.

Inside the casing, it did use a 2.5" drive.
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