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The Google layoffs are about personal ambition and poor leadership

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Re: The Google layoffs are about personal ambition and poor leadership

#61
post #43

You work for google because you make insane money and have cachet you can take anywhere and get hired instantly. Hell, you can pull in 10 million funding for your startup idea if you like. Or just retire, get a boat, go sailing. Of course all of this had to go bad. Come on now. Stop whining already. I work in the IT sewer fighting rats. I will always have work. I'm filthy and I smell bad, but I'm doing fine, and no,…

Worth noting that many of the people let go were not your 300K/year engineers.

The MEDIAN compensation at google is $300k!

Re: The Google layoffs are about personal ambition and poor leadership

#62
post #12

I understand that layoffs are a blunt instrument and it is unlikely that all of the “right” people were affected, but Google has long been known as the FAANG to go to if you want to chill, coast, and vest. No Facebook PSC, no Amazon stack ranking, no Netflix “sports team”. Obviously it is team dependent, but it really has that reputation. The well-known tradeoff is that getting a promo to a post-senior level is borde…

The layoff didn't particularly target the rest-and-vesters, though. It frankly appears mostly random based on what I've seen.

How can you have any real opinion on it without knowing people’s comp level?

Re: The Google layoffs are about personal ambition and poor leadership

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over the past decade, Google paid massive salaries to people building one failed bet after another, while Search and Youtube Ad revenue continued to grow and literally nothing else matters.

Maps, android and its ecosystem (play store, etc.), cloud, nest, gmail & google docs. All those have a significant market.

chrome/chromeos/chromebooks

Re: The Google layoffs are about personal ambition and poor leadership

#64
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+ Google Maps

Fair, it’s close or higher than YouTube revenues right? I’ve always mentally included it as part of “Search”.

yes, we don't know, they don't separate maps and search in earning call.

Re: The Google layoffs are about personal ambition and poor leadership

#65

Who wants to work in Google anyway?

No kidding. When I see FAANG on a resume I read: grinds leetcode, comfortable jumping through mindless hoops, comfortable with extreme amounts of bureaucracy as long as they’re being paid, etc. I’d generally prefer someone from a technically sound venture funded startup.

My experience is opposite to what you described. I got into faang with minimal leetcode grind and didn't have to jump many hoops. The career move not only removed the unnecessary bureaucracy from my daily activities and tools, but also finally gave me actually challenging problems to work on. I suppose it's always a matter of perspective, but I'd wager 90% of work at 90% of startups doesn't equate rocket science. When looking for a startup to work for, you have to filter out a lot of bad ones and the balance between difficult and impossible can be hard to strike. If you have a good idea and a decent skillset founding can be impressive, but generally I've found faang engineers to seem more apt than most people I've met at/seen in startups, with the exception of 1-2 superstars per startup.

Re: The Google layoffs are about personal ambition and poor leadership

#67
> My ambition is to employ still more men, to spread the benefits of this industrial system to the greatest possible number, to help them build up their lives and their homes. To do this we are putting the greatest share of our profits back in the business.

> The Dodge brothers owned 10% of Ford and opposed this and took Ford to court because they wanted the payments to be able to start their own company. They won and Ford was not allowed to lower prices or raise salaries at the company thus enshrining maximising shareholder value into law.

> At its heart this is a problem about unrestrained capitalism.

I was making this argument yesterday on the post about blizzard firing the employee critical of the stack ranking policy: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34498473

These companies are having record profits, and doing layoffs anyway. I think they can get away with this because everyone's talking about recession and inflation. Thus they can increase pressure on current employees to work harder for the same or less money, and add further "proof" of their fears by doing layoffs and saying recession forced them. That's the wind around explanation I have but the article says it as simply as I think leadership is thinking about it: they probably aren't doing holistic class analysis and nefariously thinking about new and exciting ways to extract more labor for less money, they probably straight up are just trying to increase profit by reducing cost overhead.

But I agree with the article that this is in the end just then problem with unfettered capitalism. Incredibly, I had no idea the Ford story about the origins of "fiduciary responsibility to shareholders." Is that an oversimplification? Is that truly the first step down the stairs away from intelligently leveraged capitalism? I assumed the usa was the way it is because of a natural result of what happens when capital accumulates and is allowed to function as a analogue for political power: corporations will accumulate and then wield political power towards the goal of further accumulation. I had no idea the progress made on this front was already enshrined in law in Ford's time.

To me this seems inevitable. Corporations are like little AIs with a "never stop growing" directive. When society lets them get away with extracting more labor for less money by framing against recession, what means of protection do employees have, especially in the usa with comparatively minor unemployment benefits and layoff protections. It seems to me the only path forward, if we want then situation to improve for ourselves, is unionization. If we try to change the company from within by working with leadership, we're "activist employees" and a threat to shareholder profit, and get fired. If we wait, we get laid off when they can get away with it.

This is all predicated on the idea that the layoffs aren't necessary. The company won't die if the layoffs don't happen. It won't go bankrupt. It will simply be less profitable. And? So what? Does the value of the product change? Does the fact that google.com route basically all internet traffic change? In fact, if they leaned into reducing profit to share among employees, they'd be looking at being a co-op, which are provably more stable than traditional corporations and by some studies, more profitable... Just not for shareholders that don't actually do anything to contribute to that profitability.

Edit: reading more into it, the Ford thing doesn't necessarily make it federal law to seek shareholder profit above all other concerns. I don't believe that changes much about my comment: they're still doing this for the shareholders, not the employees.

Re: The Google layoffs are about personal ambition and poor leadership

#68

As people get more intelligent and smarter, the Ad business will die. I'm sure about it. In my whole life, there's no single ad that makes sense for me to see and click, because it's annoying. I love smart search results, not smart ad results.

I wonder if the world is trending in this direction. If anything, the moat between the two is growing larger, highlighting the differences. Everyone in your bubble may seem to be growing and learning, but you're also the type who spends their off time browsing highly technical message boards.

No, all of those kinds failed eventually. There's no successful ones as i see.

And also the successful business as i know run no Ad campaign.

You're just making assumptions.

Re: The Google layoffs are about personal ambition and poor leadership

#69

As people get more intelligent and smarter, the Ad business will die. I'm sure about it. In my whole life, there's no single ad that makes sense for me to see and click, because it's annoying. I love smart search results, not smart ad results.

There's a good HL Mencken quote about the likelihood of people getting collectively smarter:

"No one in this world, so far as I know—and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me—has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby. "

Re: The Google layoffs are about personal ambition and poor leadership

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The layoff didn't particularly target the rest-and-vesters, though. It frankly appears mostly random based on what I've seen.

How can you have any real opinion on it without knowing people’s comp level?

Levels are public at Google, unlike Meta, or Netflix that (formerly) did not have them at all.
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