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The Disappearance of the Ashtray

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Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#621

Post by Karrot_Kream »

BizarroLand wrote: post #615
Karrot_Kream wrote: post #612

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't be silly. Is your home's air filtered correctly? Did you scratch your face after touching a public doorknob? I hope you're not using "poetic drivel" to justify use of a gas stove when we know it leads to combustion byproducts in the air. You better be eating healthy all the time too, or else only copium is justifying your food choices. Nobody is saying that cigarettes or nicotine is healthy. The warnings exist…

The dangers of smoking are not equatable to the dangers of unfiltered house air. Smoking is a known carcinogen with a known increase in death rate on top of all of the things you listed. In fact smokers probably also have the exact same air quality and environmental dangers that you listed but have added smoking on top of that. Sure, have fun, it's your life. Smoke away. Just don't believe lies about "organic tobacco…

I don't think anyone believes any lies about "organic tobacco" being healthy for you. Cigarettes and combustion are bad for you. It's obvious and the labels and taxes enforce this so that future generations understand what they're getting into with tobacco products. I don't smoke myself and it's because I'm aware of the risks of what's happening.

Offering snark at someone else's conscious bad habit that affects nobody but themselves and other smokers who opt-in strikes me as silly. Smoking has been successfully regulated, though minor vigilance is required to make sure tobacco companies don't try and undo regulation. There are many worse things that Americans partake in all the time that are untaxed, unlabelled, and only minorly regulated that will have much better public health outcomes than continually shining a spotlight on smoking and will be a better use of our collective moral and political capital as a country.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#622

Post by npteljes »

alex_duf wrote: post #325
MrLeap wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smoking tobacco, as far as I know, does not make one spontaneously explode. To say otherwise, in my view, would be overstating the risks of smoking.

I can't remember where I read that, but someone had made an interesting observation that stayed with me, and your comment makes me think of it (perhaps you're referring to the same article?) What if instead of slowly dying of cancer, smoking had a tiny tiny chance of making you die by exploding your face? Exact same probability of dying, just very violent and graphic. Chances are barely anyone would smoke. Yet, same…

Fewer would smoke, but I'd wager it would be popular with the young. I think it all boils down to feedback. The more abstract something is, the harder it is to fathom. So if you lessen the feedback, by, for example, delaying the negative effects, people won't react. Take the other popular vice, alcohol. If hangover was immediately present, I don't think we would have the drinking culture that we have today. How many vow to never drink again, on the day after. Yet, people drink again.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#623

Post by npteljes »

nelblu wrote: post #367

I am so glad smoking is prohibited in public places. I can't stand it all, and my wife is allergic to it. Next I would love to see more restrictions on driving loud noised cars and bikes, every time I see a Harley owner ride by with a loud noise or a truck owner drive by, I can't feel anything but contempt for such lowlife humans who have no regards for other people's and animals' sensitivities.

After air pollution, noise pollution is considered to be the most important environmental stressor to humans[0]. So I agree, noise is important. And I don't miss the public smoke either.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_effects_from_noise

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#624

Post by npteljes »

chaosbolt wrote: post #377
nelblu wrote: post #367

I am so glad smoking is prohibited in public places. I can't stand it all, and my wife is allergic to it. Next I would love to see more restrictions on driving loud noised cars and bikes, every time I see a Harley owner ride by with a loud noise or a truck owner drive by, I can't feel anything but contempt for such lowlife humans who have no regards for other people's and animals' sensitivities.

>I can't feel anything but contempt for such lowlife humans Sounds to me like you could use some therapy, it's not good to have this much hatred inside. It's ok if someone does something that bothers you, some noise or some smoke won't kill you, it's just perspective, objectively it doesn't hurt you in any way, but the reason it does is because you have these strong beliefs against it, so you basically choose to be h…

Noise objectively hurts though: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_effects_from_noise

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#625

Post by npteljes »

8bitsrule wrote: post #204

"It reeks." "Toxic fumes." Same's true of ICE automobile exhausts. In far more voluminous quantities. The whole "great outdoors" is their ashtray. When will they be banned?

The biggest baddie is fossil fuel though, if we're talking smokes. I wish them all gone though, to be honest.

https://earth.org/causes-and-effects-of-air-pollution/

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#627

Post by BizarroLand »

Karrot_Kream wrote: post #621
BizarroLand wrote: post #615

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The dangers of smoking are not equatable to the dangers of unfiltered house air. Smoking is a known carcinogen with a known increase in death rate on top of all of the things you listed. In fact smokers probably also have the exact same air quality and environmental dangers that you listed but have added smoking on top of that. Sure, have fun, it's your life. Smoke away. Just don't believe lies about "organic tobacco…

I don't think anyone believes any lies about "organic tobacco" being healthy for you. Cigarettes and combustion are bad for you. It's obvious and the labels and taxes enforce this so that future generations understand what they're getting into with tobacco products. I don't smoke myself and it's because I'm aware of the risks of what's happening. Offering snark at someone else's conscious bad habit that affects nobod…

So, you think my responses are simply about how smoking is bad?

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#628

Post by yencabulator »

dns_snek wrote: post #467
Dalewyn wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm overly simplifying, but if policy is to not smoke and you can't (or refuse to) follow orders, you're out. Dishonorable discharge. Adults are not children, much less military personnel. Smoking is a choice and you are responsible for your choices. "It's an addiction." is a lazy, irresponsible excuse and escape.

You're confusing new choices with consequences of previous ones. Taking up smoking when you're fully aware that your job prohibits you from smoking is a choice and you're right - "It's an addiction" would be a poor excuse. Quoting the context from a few replies ago: > You don't have to ban smokers to ban smoking on a sub. Smokers don't have to smoke, they merely choose to do so. Being asked to quit an addiction on de…

Do you "get asked" to serve on a submarine, or do you apply to serve on a submarine?

What next, are you going to obligate the military to provide all the alcohol and hard drugs any addict may desire in the next 6 months?

There's so many reasons you get disqualified from serving in certain positions in military. Being addicted is just one of them.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#629

Post by yencabulator »

Marsymars wrote: post #593
mjg59 wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brand new aircraft still include fixtures to stub out cigarettes in the bathrooms, because it doesn't matter if you declare that something's forbidden, people will do it anyway and you need to do what you can to minimise harm.

Won’t smoking in an airplane bathroom set off an alarm?

Yes. The person triggering the alarm will still likely look for a place to extinguish the cigarette, and pretend they've done nothing wrong. The ashtray thing is there because otherwise those idiots will put the burning cigarette in the trash or in the tank with chemicals in which it might just cause a pile-up of debris and clogs.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#630

Post by yencabulator »

bambax wrote: post #333
camillomiller wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smoking on planes is absolutely something I can't wrap my head around in any possible way. How the hell someone EVER thought it would be a good idea to let people smoke while packed inside a flying metal cylinder?

I don't think an accident ever occurred because of smoking in the cabin? (Possibly one because of smoking in the lavatory, and I'm not even sure). For smokers, going 4, 6 or 9 hours without smoking is just unthinkable; I know it was for me. So glad I quit (a very long time ago), but I don't know how smokers deal with it today.

There are plenty of reasons why people shouldn't be flying planes. Being unable to not smoke is not really any different from being unable to resist getting drunk or falling asleep, as far as safety people have to be concerned. It fundamentally doesn't matter if it's "your fault" or "addiction" or a "medical reason"...
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