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NYC jails want to ban physical mail, then privatize scanning of digital versions

theintercept.com

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Re: NYC jails want to ban physical mail, then privatize scanning of digital versions

#351

Post by JamesBarney »

Spivak wrote: post #338
JamesBarney wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The inmates don't receive 100k/year. If we didn't have prisons would we punish criminals in a different way or just let criminal commit as many crimes as they'd like? I guess taking a hand or a foot is cheaper than a prison but most people think prison is more human.

Does the difference matter? You're still out $100k/yr. If you pay for my rent, food, clothes, electricity, heat, water, gym membership, healthcare, internet, and a one person subscription to rent-a-prison-guard the fact that I'm not seeing the cash is immaterial. > would we punish criminals in a different way Yes, this is implied. The most popular alternative is "house arrest" (i.e "adult grounding") where you're mon…

State prisons are 60% violent offences. Robbery, assault, rape, and murder. Another ~8% are burglaries which have a high likelihood of leading to violence.

Re: NYC jails want to ban physical mail, then privatize scanning of digital versions

#352

Post by bob_theslob646 »

double2helix wrote: post #237

I was locked up in the feds, and the last two years I was there they went to this policy. Let me assure you if did absolutely nothing to stymie the flow of drugs. There are a hundred different ways people get stuff on the inside, and even if those hundred different ways were stopped there would be a new hundred in no time. The quality of the mail scans were terrible. Problems like missing portions of letters and B&W…

>There are a hundred different ways people get stuff on the inside, and even if those hundred different ways were stopped there would be a new hundred in no time.

Remove humans from process that cannot be corrupted. That's how you would stop contraband.

Re: NYC jails want to ban physical mail, then privatize scanning of digital versions

#353

Post by prepend »

jeffwask wrote: post #139
prepend wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 12+ years of incarceration in the federal system. His crime was armed robbery, first offense, no one was injured, and he profited a grand total of $35,000. No one was harmed. But the crime involved threat of death. So threatening to kill at least one person is a pretty serious crime. It’s good that no one was killed, but definitely the intent to kill for personal gain was part of the reason for such a lengthy sente…

I fully agree he earned punishment and it was a serious crime. (he says the gun was never loaded but that's neither here nor there). My question is the scope and breadth of the punishment and whether the system is about restitution and rehabilitation or pure punitive action. How do people come out after 10+ years having received no training, support or rehabilitation and step into a completely changed society from wh…

I don’t think the prison system is about rehabilitation. I think it’s based on the principal of protecting the population from people likely to commit crimes. P who commit crimes are much more likely than the general population to commit a crime, so the more years they are behind bars, the less chance they commit crimes.

The slave labor is punishment, and I believe the only form of slavery allowed under the US constitution. I think the prison could pay nothing but they choose practically nothing.

I agree on reforming exploitative services like $5/minute phone calls. I don’t think prisoners should be abused financially. I wish I could vote for candidates who supported this kind of reform.

In elections near me, this isn’t even an issue where candidates differentiate. There were a few candidates that were running for reform but they were more along the lines of not prosecuting certain misdemeanors.

I think the whit collar crime being punished less than violent crime kind of makes sense. I’d rather someone steal $1M than injure someone. It’s pretty mercenary to say that someone stealing $5M without violence is worse than someone stealing $35k with violence. I also don’t think prison sentences have clear relationships for comparison.

Is your brothers crime worse than raping 5 people? He would have received less jail time. Is that right? I’m not sure.

Re: NYC jails want to ban physical mail, then privatize scanning of digital versions

#354

Post by gambiting »

cat_plus_plus wrote: post #340
gambiting wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Hmmm, this one seems Ok / good idea? Did you read the article? It explicitly says several other US states have already done this, and it hasn't reduced the prevelance of drugs in the system. So I really don't see why this is a "good idea"? >>inmates don't have a right to privacy, for good reasons. They do though. It's severely limited, but it exists. Article also mentions this, if you read it?

Who said drugs are the only problem? How about handmade weapons (can cut someone's throat with a glass shard), hidden messages, non-hidden messages missed during inspection? Once things are digitized they can be investigated if something happens and anyone aiding criminal acts can be held responsible. Inmates certainly have privacy to consult their lawyer. They should not have privacy to plan additional crimes with a…

I think you are misunderstanding. The letters are always opened and checked for contraband. But they aren't read.

>>They should not have privacy to plan additional crimes with arbitrary people outside.

And how does this system prevent them from doing such a thing? The letters still won't be read by anyone - just digitized, in some mistaken belief that this will prevent contraband getting into prisons(which it won't - because letters aren't and never were the source of it - corrupt guards are). This is purely a scheme to give private corporations money - I literally don't understand why so many people here are defending it.

Re: NYC jails want to ban physical mail, then privatize scanning of digital versions

#355

Post by yladiz »

D13Fd wrote: post #217
yladiz wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you provide the evidence you mention at the end of your comment?

No, because my point here is that we shouldn’t be steering this thread into a discussion of police corruption, which has nothing to do with the article.

I’m skeptical of you because you do continue to push your point that the police are not corrupt, and that you don’t any provide evidence to prove your aforementioned point. Additionally, because a discussion isn’t completely related to the article doesn’t mean it can’t be discussed here so it doesn’t make sense to try to shut it down because you both disagree with it and disagree that it belongs here.

Re: NYC jails want to ban physical mail, then privatize scanning of digital versions

#356

Post by angelgonzales »

ROTMetro wrote: post #311
angelgonzales wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand your point - prisons want to exploit prisoners and their families for profit by brokering imports into their facilities. I also think that many people who have bleeding hearts for these criminals and their families haven’t been direct victims of crimes themselves. Often these criminals are terrible people who act horrifically and with malice but act so sorry for themselves when they’re caught and on tria…

So you want to use the excuse of drug smuggling to punish criminals above their judges ordered constitutionally legal sentence? Got it. Thanks for elaborating on your reasoning and why you don't believe 'all men are created equal' and have constitutional rights (with criminals, what we are discussing here is a protected right to 'familial association' if you want to look it up in case law and Supreme Court precedent)…

I’m not sure your argument is valid, I’m not sure of the point you’re trying to make as it relates to the point I was trying to make. That being said, a government isn’t infringing on the rights of citizens when the government incidentally creates a situation where the citizen’s ability to exercise their rights is limited. I as a free person have the right to protest, that doesn’t mean the government is obligated to pay for my posters or advertisements, nor are they obligated to protect me, that doesn’t mean they’re infringing on my right to assemble and protest. I’m also not sure that reading books or news is a constitutional right, although writing and reporting is a constitutional right. A government not providing a means for prisoners to purchase or read books does not mean they’re actively infringing on any rights, it’s purely incidental if the prisoner has no access to literature because the government has no obligation to provide literature to prisoners. There is the question of cruel and unusual punishment, but if we go by historical precedent which is important to consider then not providing literature to prisoners is not a cruel punishment.

Re: NYC jails want to ban physical mail, then privatize scanning of digital versions

#358

Post by metadat »

ilickpoolalgae wrote: post #149
sokoloff wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s wrong with working on a porn site? I’d feel better about working on a porn site than at least one of FAANGs.

A sense of a large portion of the porn industry, whether domestic or international, is developed through coercion, abuse, and sometimes straight up sex trafficking of vulnerable people? For every legitimate actress/actor who is involved in the industry in a safe manner, there are several who were tricked into a production. I think as a society we've generally moving to accepting the sex industry as a necessary vice,…

> that's someone's child on screen that more likely than not, had no idea what they were getting into.

Do you have sources on this? Abuse was rampant throughout the adult media industry prior to the wide availability of broadband Internet in the late 90s, but since then there has been an ever increasing tide of completely willing participants who go into it with open eyes as a way to support themselves.

Why bother trying to "trick" or force someone into it when it's umpteen times easier to find a willing participant.

Human-slavery situations notwithstanding, of course. Such productions are not mainstream.

Re: NYC jails want to ban physical mail, then privatize scanning of digital versions

#359

Post by afarrell »

nobody9999 wrote: post #331
afarrell wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> incentivizing prisons to actually rehabilitate Parenting is hard. Parenting someone who is already an adult is harder still. Beyond incentives, they might not have the resources to rehabilitate the prisoners.

>Parenting is hard. Parenting someone who is already an adult is harder still. Beyond incentives, they might not have the resources to rehabilitate the prisoners. The social and economic benefits of rehabilitation far outweigh any costs incurred in rehabilitating folks. Communities would be wealthier and safer if we didn't penalize convicted persons for the rest of their lives, by denying them jobs, housing and acces…

Right. It also requires overcoming problems of trust and trustworthiness.

Doing the work to restore that trust is the work of justice.

Re: NYC jails want to ban physical mail, then privatize scanning of digital versions

#360

Post by FireBeyond »

scrollaway wrote: post #159
aqme28 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suddenly prisons are trying to incarcerate the factually innocent, since they're the least likely to "re-offend."

But prisons don’t incarcerate people? They aren’t the ones taking decisions on who goes in there.

Correction Officer lobby groups consistently fight any legalization (marijuana or otherwise), any loosening of alcohol restrictions in states where there are, and are steadily advocating for higher and stricter sentencing.
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