This is pretty similar to how Nintendo validates game cartridges. They all contain a unique signed header. If you connect to an online game and your game serial number is being used by hundreds of other users, Nintendo can see its a pirated copy and you get console banned from online for all games.
How the Xbox 360 knows if your hard drive is genuine
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Re: How the Xbox 360 knows if your hard drive is genuine
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not disagreeing but remember > Microsoft Corp., the world's largest software maker, loses at least $153 (U.S.) on each Xbox 360 video game console it sells, based on just the cost of components and assembly, a research firm says. Parts such as processors and manufacturing cost $552.27 for each machine that retails at $399, El Segundo, Calif. With this context it doesn’t surprise me they try to recoup something on eac…
When was that? Because at the start of the console your chip might be a cutting edge and incur massive costs, but cost a tenth to produce once it goes from cutting-edge to practiced.
Right, but the above figure is under-shooting if anything since it budgets $0 for software development. Microsoft definitely charged a premium for accessories, seems like a classic price discrimination, wherein the richer consumers were subsidizing the cost of the console (and its development) for poorer ones.
Re: How the Xbox 360 knows if your hard drive is genuine
#73I thought I remember there being adapters which allowed you to use regular 2.5inch hard drives on the xbox 360. Maybe my mind is just tricking me again though.
You might be thinking of the PlayStation 3 / 4, they do use standard 2.5” drives without artificial lockouts.
Re: How the Xbox 360 knows if your hard drive is genuine
#74I will never understand why people buy that locked down, proprietary, DRM infested shit (gaming consoles, "smart" appliances, smartphones, apple stuff etc.) in the first place. .. I would rather have nothing.
People want products that "just work" and I don't think it is fair to blame them for that. The problems mainly arise when the locked down stuff breaks or treats the user badly in some way, but even if stuff were not locked down the average person would just sell or throw out their device when it no pleased them anyways.
I'm not blaming users for something. I said "I will never understand". Though I can hypothesize. I think in some cases due to deceitful marketing, users think "This thing will be great! It will do X,Y and Z for me.".. Then they buy it and realize that X is forbidden, Y requires a subscription, and Z is not available in their region or whatever. They are disspointed but they've already bought the thing at that point and make do rather than return it. I have seen this happen to people I know for sure.
I definitely blame the corporation for unethically making products like that in the 1st place, and then also deceitfully marketing them. There should be much stricter laws and severe punishments in place to protect the public.
Re: How the Xbox 360 knows if your hard drive is genuine
#75Eaton, if you are planning to write more interesting posts like this, please consider adding RSS/Atom (or making it more obvious if it is already there).
+1 RSS.
In the meantime, you can use https://kill-the-newsletter.com/ to get an RSS for newsletter items.
Re: How the Xbox 360 knows if your hard drive is genuine
#76Microsoft really seemed to be ahead of the curve with console security. They really thought this through back in 2005 or so, to the point where clearly, they knew people would hack the drives to rewrite the serial number. It's probably for the best that they never actually did anything about the knowledge that gave them, but they clearly stayed a step ahead of the game. As much as I hate it, their actions show a grea…
>their actions show a great deal of respect towards the ingenuity of console hackers, because if they didn't, they would've never bothered to do such an effort thwarting them. dude. The irony. They bricked our machines and joked about it. They had a fellowship with the FBI. They (MS and EA) threw OP, the author of this fkn submission, in jail. Their own Terms of Service and Policy Enforcement page still brags about "…
Yes. I agree.
> Make no mistake, MS and Xbox still hate us.
I should point out that I was not suggesting there was a good relationship between console hackers and Microsoft. Quote from me again:
> respect towards the ingenuity of console hackers
I did not say they had respect for the people, or that what they were doing was good, or anything like that. I'm claiming that from a security standpoint, they took the threat very seriously.
Microsoft legally bullying people is bad, but it's nothing new from Microsoft. Hell, it's nothing new from the console industry either. I actually was not aware of Microsoft putting anyone in jail over the Xbox homebrew/modding scene, but it does not surprise me. I remember what happened with Sony and Geohotz.
Still, from a sterile, technical point of view, I do think that in 2005 they were way, way ahead of keeping their console "secure" according to their threat model. I am never going to be particularly fond of a threat model where the adversary is the customer, but that's not really the point.
Re: How the Xbox 360 knows if your hard drive is genuine
#77Earlier quoted context omitted.
>their actions show a great deal of respect towards the ingenuity of console hackers, because if they didn't, they would've never bothered to do such an effort thwarting them. dude. The irony. They bricked our machines and joked about it. They had a fellowship with the FBI. They (MS and EA) threw OP, the author of this fkn submission, in jail. Their own Terms of Service and Policy Enforcement page still brags about "…
Yes. I agree. > Make no mistake, MS and Xbox still hate us. I should point out that I was not suggesting there was a good relationship between console hackers and Microsoft. Quote from me again: > respect towards the ingenuity of console hackers I did not say they had respect for the people , or that what they were doing was good, or anything like that. I'm claiming that from a security standpoint, they took the thre…
> I do think that in 2005 they were way, way ahead of keeping their console "secure" according to their threat model.
I agree, see my other comment re: KV.bin
They built the x360 with layers, upon layers, like an onion.
Two exploits (JTAG and RGH), and a few forever-unspeakable social engineering incidents aside, they did great work.
Until Mw2 came out in 2011.
Re: How the Xbox 360 knows if your hard drive is genuine
#78stuff like this is outrageous. i got a steam deck a few weeks ago and decided to grab the base model and an $80 512GB NVMe drive on newegg. the install was easy and i saved a ton of money. that's how hardware should work, especially stuff as easy as drives/RAM.
Similarly this is the approach Sony took with the PS5. It accepts any sufficiently fast nvme drive via the standard connector - just plug it in and it works. No proprietary expansion card like Microsoft and Seagate are selling for the new Xbox.
Re: How the Xbox 360 knows if your hard drive is genuine
#79Earlier quoted context omitted.
That was a tactic Nintendo used with the gameboy. The courts eventually decided that the logo, when used as an access token like that, no longer qualified for the creative component required for copyright protection.
That case was 1992, which today would not hold up due to the political shift of corporate power. Same as how in the 90's Microsoft couldn't monopolize with internet explorer, yet mobile devices are doing it every day in even worse fashion.
yet mobile devices are doing it every day in even worse fashion.
I hate being limited to Safari on iOS, but iOS has < 30% market share worldwide. Additionally, browsers are (highly unfortunately IMO) less relevant than in ~2004 when IE had a stranglehold on things.
Re: How the Xbox 360 knows if your hard drive is genuine
#80Earlier quoted context omitted.
People want these kind of security measures when they buy a game console, because the alternative is easily-modded consoles that people use to cheat in online games. Lots of online games are also not well engineered so cheating can cause crashes and save corruption - for example, modders constantly find bugs in GTA V that can be used to crash GTA Online sessions or even crash single-player sessions where you're playi…
I would prefer that platforms are fully open because it would force game studios and app developers to implement good security that doesn't rely on the client being unhackable.
That doesn’t work for low latency games like shooters.