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PagerDuty to Lay Off 7% of Staff; Revenue Officer to Exit

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Re: PagerDuty to Lay Off 7% of Staff; Revenue Officer to Exit

#141

Post by kodah »

baby-yoda wrote: post #139
kodah wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, but by that logic they knew what was going to happen if they hired people and did so anyway. That doesn't even pass the most basic of ethical smell tests.

I don't think its quite that simple without knowing who specifically was laid off, tenure, specialty, for what reason, etc. I cant imagine anyone would hire people with the intention of laying them off, so I can't agree with that conclusion. I'd guess they hired with the intention of growing the company and for a myriad of reasons that didn't happen. Expansion and contraction are normal cycles in a company.

You said it yourself. They're not profitable and they lack cash flow. If they hired under those circumstances without telling employees what kind of risk they were taking, that is unethical. I don't need to know who got laid off or how long they were there to know that. Before I give empathy to rich CEOs and execs, they can explain themselves transparently. This never happens though.

Re: PagerDuty to Lay Off 7% of Staff; Revenue Officer to Exit

#143

Post by luckylion »

gusgus01 wrote: post #138
luckylion wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I switch jobs every 2 years for a raise" vs "my employer laid me off, this should be illegal". You get the good with the bad. It's easier to get hired if it's easy to get fired. I'd buy your point about power imbalance if it was about blue collar workers. But not for IT, where jobs are plentiful and compensation is through the roof. Why not start a coop with likeminded folks and give yourselves the protection from b…

"I switched jobs" lets you plan, eg a small gap in unemployment to reduce missed paychecks or to minimize chance of needing COBRA. "My employer laid me off" doesn't and adds on the implications of a lay off in your field of work, so you get to start your search after being unemployed and possibly in a field with many others looking for jobs.

What I meant was: especially in IT employees feel zero loyalty to their employer. On the other side, they expect their employers to be loyal to them. The same is true in reverse, too, companies don't care about their employees but feel betrayed when the employees leave for greener pastures. Everyone plays the same game.

If you want to work in a stable environment where you don't get fired and your promotions and raises are few and far between and planned years in advance, you go and find a job in some bureaucracy. If you want the benefits of fast-moving high-compensation private economy, it feels weird to complain that this also includes quick termination on occasion.

Re: PagerDuty to Lay Off 7% of Staff; Revenue Officer to Exit

#144

Post by darkwizard42 »

drewcoo wrote: post #74
darkwizard42 wrote: post #7

I think I respect that at least one of the executives whose responsibility it was to NOT let this happen is being exited out. Google and others have babbled on about executives taking full responsibility for the layoffs, but I don't see any of the key SVPs or VPs taking hits on failing in their leadership. Also I understand they say to pursue other opportunities, but I think the reason for the CRO departure feels tra…

If no other execs are axed for cuts, it's not likely that this exec was either. It's a pleasant narrative for everyone involved, though.

I don't think you axe the execs for opex cut, you axe the execs for failing to perform. It seems they get significantly more favorable terms in these sort of layoffs than rank+file employees.

Re: PagerDuty to Lay Off 7% of Staff; Revenue Officer to Exit

#145

Post by negamax »

losvedir wrote: post #131

It's kind of interesting to me that PagerDuty's stock is down 7% right now. If I'm remembering right, when Google and Meta, and maybe some of the others, announced layoffs their stocks actually went up , didn't it? Why the difference?

Imo. Google and Facebook doing cuts meant that they let go of the recent hires or allocations in recent moon projects. Their core business is intact and is likely thriving. PD cutting is a signal that the company is getting affected by the waves in the industry as in there's less startup funding

Re: PagerDuty to Lay Off 7% of Staff; Revenue Officer to Exit

#146

Post by baby-yoda »

kodah wrote: post #141
baby-yoda wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think its quite that simple without knowing who specifically was laid off, tenure, specialty, for what reason, etc. I cant imagine anyone would hire people with the intention of laying them off, so I can't agree with that conclusion. I'd guess they hired with the intention of growing the company and for a myriad of reasons that didn't happen. Expansion and contraction are normal cycles in a company.

You said it yourself. They're not profitable and they lack cash flow. If they hired under those circumstances without telling employees what kind of risk they were taking, that is unethical. I don't need to know who got laid off or how long they were there to know that. Before I give empathy to rich CEOs and execs, they can explain themselves transparently. This never happens though.

So you're suggesting a company can't hire employees unless they have positive income/cash flow? Like, a legal requirement?

How do you even suggest a company tells employees of "the risk they are taking"? No job is guaranteed, risk is inherit no matter the company. They've been public since 2019, anyone can look at their financials and decide for themselves.

If someone was hired in 2019 and laid off today, was that "unethical"? What about 2015? This isn't about empathy for CEOs and execs, the business will attempt to sustain itself and there are harsh realities that come along with that.

Re: PagerDuty to Lay Off 7% of Staff; Revenue Officer to Exit

#147

Post by BizarreByte »

luckylion wrote: post #108
ye-olde-sysrq wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I keep seeing this sentiment everywhere. I think it's just two continental plates continuing to rub together: 1. Employment is purely transactional. Time is exchanged for money and money-equivalents. Full stop. 2. Your work is an act of self-expression. You derive meaning from your work, take pride in it, and feel a sense of ownership and responsibility in it. The work and its output bears the indelible mark of the m…

"I switch jobs every 2 years for a raise" vs "my employer laid me off, this should be illegal". You get the good with the bad. It's easier to get hired if it's easy to get fired. I'd buy your point about power imbalance if it was about blue collar workers. But not for IT, where jobs are plentiful and compensation is through the roof. Why not start a coop with likeminded folks and give yourselves the protection from b…

A lot of us don’t switch jobs every two years. The only reason I left my last employer after 5 years was because they were bought and shut down.

I’d love to find somewhere I could just spend the next 20 years, but that’s hard to find. There’s no job security no matter how good you are.

Re: PagerDuty to Lay Off 7% of Staff; Revenue Officer to Exit

#148

Post by tmpz22 »

The PagerDuty CEO quotes MLK in the layoff notice:

> None of this would be possible without you, our leadership, and our board — thank you for your grit and resilience, your commitment to our customers and your support of our values and people. I am reminded in moments like this, of something Martin Luther King said, that “the ultimate measure of a [leader] is not where [they] stand in the moments of comfort and convenience, but where [they] stand in times of challenge and controversy.” PagerDuty is a leader that stands behind its customers, its values, and our vision — for an equitable world where we transform critical work so all teams can delight their customers and build trust.

“the ultimate measure of a [leader] is not where [they] stand in the moments of comfort and convenience, but where [they] stand in times of challenge and controversy.”

I don't think the challenges and controversies MLK was thinking of at the time had to due with cost-cutting measures by a corporate entity.

[1]: https://www.pagerduty.com/blog/improving-pagerdutys-operatio...

Re: PagerDuty to Lay Off 7% of Staff; Revenue Officer to Exit

#149

Post by Rapzid »

tmpz22 wrote: post #148

The PagerDuty CEO quotes MLK in the layoff notice: > None of this would be possible without you, our leadership, and our board — thank you for your grit and resilience, your commitment to our customers and your support of our values and people. I am reminded in moments like this, of something Martin Luther King said, that “the ultimate measure of a [leader] is not where [they] stand in the moments of comfort and conv…

PagerDuty is.. woke. Just saying that matter-of-fact; people who work or have worked there know what I mean.

If you don't like being voluntold to record thank you messages to Georgia get-out-the-vote workers, whites-not-welcome Slack channels, and Slack bots telling you to not use "you guys" in every channel including private channels.. You won't like PagerDuty much.

Re: PagerDuty to Lay Off 7% of Staff; Revenue Officer to Exit

#150

Post by alexpotato »

eecc wrote: post #92
alexpotato wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A co-worker at as past job once said: "We pay for the services we use so that if they break, the Managing Director can pick up the phone, yell at someone and something will happen. That doesn't work with Open Source."

Respectable business people don’t yell. Your Director wasn’t one

You should spend more time around respectable hedge fund/finance folks.
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