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NYC jails want to ban physical mail, then privatize scanning of digital versions

theintercept.com

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Re: NYC jails want to ban physical mail, then privatize scanning of digital versions

#161
post #81

I feel like the prison system is the victim of perverse incentives. The goal given to them is "house this person securely for a specific length of time at the lowest cost possible ". They are rewarded for cutting costs. But the total cost we pay is the cost to imprison this person the second and third time when they re-offend. It's the policing costs when they're homeless because they can't find housing or get a job.…

>To reduce the lifetime cost of this person on society (financially and otherwise) we should be incentivising prisons to actually rehabilitate

As an American, I think that rehabilitation should be the goal. But for the most part, it isn't. But not just to "cut costs."

There's the human cost of lost potential, which is worth much more than money. But the current system also penalizes families and communities and society at-large by limiting the opportunities for those who have been convicted of a crime.

The issues with incarceration in the US go much deeper than that. You mention homelessness/joblessness. That's a very real issue, that's a result of stigmatizing (often for life) people convicted of a crime. But that's not a result of the system of incarceration, rather it's a result of government and societal devaluing of human life. And more's the pity.

As to this specific situation, I'd note that there are no prisons in New York City.

Rather, they are jails[0]:

   Jail and prison are often used interchangeably as places of confinement. If 
   you want to be specific jail can be used to describe a place for those 
   awaiting trial or held for minor crimes, whereas prison describes a place for 
   criminals convicted of serious crimes. 
Which means that the majority of folks in the institutions discussed in the post are either being held before trial (which means they haven't been found guilty of a crime) or those found guilty of minor offenses (mostly misdemeanors).

As such, this move is even more egregious, as many (most?) of these folks haven't even been convicted of a crime.

Yes, the US systems (note the plural, there are at least 51) of incarceration tend (sometimes pretty hard) towards retribution and exploitation, But they are not monolithic. They're mostly bad, but some are worse than others.

NYC had been moving in a more positive direction, with bail reform and plans to shut down the notorious Riker's Island[2] in favor of multiple, smaller jails across NYC.

However, just last week, after body/security cam footage of a mentally ill Riker's Island inmate (not convicted of a crime, but awaiting trial) being violently transferred to a "mental health" unit of the jail, the Corrections Department (DOC) [3] restricted access for the Board of Corrections (BOC) [4] (the oversight agency for the Corrections department) to such videos.

This was pretty obviously retribution for the release of the video to the media.

And now they want to further punish/exploit those who are incarcerated (again, many/most of whom haven't been convicted of a crime) with this.

It's pretty awful, but, at least in this case, please don't paint these folks with the broad brush of "criminal" as many have not been adjudged to be guilty of any crime, or are serving a short sentence for minor crimes (shoplifting, public urination, etc.).

I am not pleased with how the DOC is backsliding and will hold my elected representatives accountable in 2025 (City Council, Mayor, etc.) for these punitive and egregious abuses.

Understand that I'm not making light of your point WRT inhumane conditions and retribution/abuse/exploitation in the various US systems of incarceration. You're quite correct. I expounded because this is even more egregious than usual given the population involved.

I'd also say that our current systems don't just harm those who are incarcerated, but also the communities they come from and the economy, as those with criminal convictions are limited by the stigma of criminal convictions in the economic activity they can generate.

It's a lose-lose proposition and it requires fixing. Sadly, I won't hold my breath. :(

[0] https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/jail-vs-prison...

[1] https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/public-safety/2023/01/1...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rikers_Island

[3] https://www.nyc.gov/site/doc/index.page

[4] https://www.nyc.gov/site/boc/index.page

Re: NYC jails want to ban physical mail, then privatize scanning of digital versions

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even though I'm not a fan of private prisons, I wonder what would happen if they had a contract that gave bonuses for every year a former inmate stayed out of jail? Maybe that's already been tried.

The problem is more insidious, their incentives are to keep them incarcerated, not retrain them in any meaningful way, and hope they repeat.

Yes, this. Certainly these companies have done the math, and clearly see that the worse inmates are treated the more likely they are to become repeat customers.

Re: NYC jails want to ban physical mail, then privatize scanning of digital versions

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Going a step further, we can reduce costs by funding social services that help prevent people from ending up in prison in the first place. I agree with your assessment of our Calvinist thinking.

In Germany are about 1/3 people in prison because they used a train or bus without ticket. If you can't pay you will end up in prison. Imagine how much money this does cost.

Is this 1/3 of the current prison population, or is it 1/3 of prison sentences handout in a certain period?

I could believe the latter.

But I assume that sentences for fare evasion are shorter than for other types of theft, or more serious things like murder?

Re: NYC jails want to ban physical mail, then privatize scanning of digital versions

#164
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suddenly prisons are trying to incarcerate the factually innocent, since they're the least likely to "re-offend."

But prisons don’t incarcerate people? They aren’t the ones taking decisions on who goes in there.

Right, and the operators of prisons have never been known to collude with judges.

/s

Re: NYC jails want to ban physical mail, then privatize scanning of digital versions

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Victim isn't the right word because none of it is accidental. It's intentional design dating all the way back to 13th amendment which states. "The Thirteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution abolished slavery and involuntary servitude, except as punishment for a crime. " My brother in law was released recently from 12+ years of incarceration in the federal system. His crime was armed robbery, first offense…

> 12+ years of incarceration in the federal system. His crime was armed robbery, first offense, no one was injured, and he profited a grand total of $35,000. No one was harmed. But the crime involved threat of death. So threatening to kill at least one person is a pretty serious crime. It’s good that no one was killed, but definitely the intent to kill for personal gain was part of the reason for such a lengthy sente…

The GP wasn’t trying to make light of his brother-in-laws crime (if he was, he wouldn’t have said what the conviction was). His point was that his brother-in-law has been exploited while serving his time and that is what leads to a high number of reoffenders.

For what it’s worth, I agree with his point. The west looks down on revenge ruling, “an eye for an eye” etc. Yet the US prison system isn’t any more evolved.

The worst part of it is because we are talking about “bad people”, any defence of their treatment is easy to dismiss - and I get why. Arguing that someone who commuted armed robbery should have rights too does sound like a perverse thing to say. But ignoring those rights just allows problems to proliferate. So all your prison system does is the proverbial cutting off ones nose to spite ones face.

Re: NYC jails want to ban physical mail, then privatize scanning of digital versions

#166
post #81

I feel like the prison system is the victim of perverse incentives. The goal given to them is "house this person securely for a specific length of time at the lowest cost possible ". They are rewarded for cutting costs. But the total cost we pay is the cost to imprison this person the second and third time when they re-offend. It's the policing costs when they're homeless because they can't find housing or get a job.…

I'm not a theologian, but my understanding is that 5-point Calvinism actually claims all people are bad (total depravity of Man) and that Christians shouldn't think they're better than other people, since it's not the person's choice if they believe in God or not (irresistible grace).

Though, maybe in practice Calvinism deviates from theory.

Re: NYC jails want to ban physical mail, then privatize scanning of digital versions

#167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Germany are about 1/3 people in prison because they used a train or bus without ticket. If you can't pay you will end up in prison. Imagine how much money this does cost.

Is this 1/3 of the current prison population, or is it 1/3 of prison sentences handout in a certain period? I could believe the latter. But I assume that sentences for fare evasion are shorter than for other types of theft, or more serious things like murder?

Sadly population

Re: NYC jails want to ban physical mail, then privatize scanning of digital versions

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But prisons don’t incarcerate people? They aren’t the ones taking decisions on who goes in there.

Right, and the operators of prisons have never been known to collude with judges. /s

I don’t know of a single argument that can’t be dismantled with “right, and people have never been found to cheat the system?”…

Is judges colluding with prison operators a frequent and normal occurrence? The US prison system is bad, but to my knowledge these things are the exception.

Re: NYC jails want to ban physical mail, then privatize scanning of digital versions

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are probably referring to cases like the Pornhub scandal, GirlsDoPorn or recently arrested Andrew Tate who is alleged to have lured and exploited young women for camgirl work.

Of the entire body of porn in existence, is it closer to 2% or 51% that is trafficking-implicated? Is "some"? Yes. Is "most"? I seriously doubt it.

US-made porn I'd agree with you, the unions and other associations (e.g. APAG) have a pretty good eye, and the record-keeping requirements help out as well.

Internationally however? Oh hell no. Particularly Eastern Europe has been rife with stories of exploitation for decades, and some Asian countries have an even worse problem with sexual exploitation of minors. For example, Andrew Tate, moron that he is, just made the error of publicly admitting that the police doesn't care about sexual exploitation on camera - now he forced the hands of the police to act.

Re: NYC jails want to ban physical mail, then privatize scanning of digital versions

#170
post #166
post #81

I feel like the prison system is the victim of perverse incentives. The goal given to them is "house this person securely for a specific length of time at the lowest cost possible ". They are rewarded for cutting costs. But the total cost we pay is the cost to imprison this person the second and third time when they re-offend. It's the policing costs when they're homeless because they can't find housing or get a job.…

I'm not a theologian, but my understanding is that 5-point Calvinism actually claims all people are bad (total depravity of Man) and that Christians shouldn't think they're better than other people, since it's not the person's choice if they believe in God or not (irresistible grace). Though, maybe in practice Calvinism deviates from theory.

Man is fallen, we are all equally fallen and sinful. No man is better than another, nothing man can do would ever be enough to make up for our sins.
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