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The Disappearance of the Ashtray

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Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#461

Post by mattmanser »

camillomiller wrote: post #88
Stratoscope wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smoking or non? Looks like you're about 25 years younger than me. When I was a kid, there was no such thing as a nonsmoking section. Of course you could smoke, anywhere! Us kids didn't get real tobacco cigarettes, but we always had candy cigarettes so we could "smoke" along with the grown-ups. https://www.google.com/search?q=candy+cigarette&tbm=isch One difference from today was that our candy cigarettes had brand na…

Smoking on planes is absolutely something I can't wrap my head around in any possible way. How the hell someone EVER thought it would be a good idea to let people smoke while packed inside a flying metal cylinder?

I remember reading closer to the time they banned smoking on planes of engineers complaining that when people stopped smoking on planes it made it much harder to inspect for hairline cracks! The smoke would highlight the cracks yellow.

Can't find any first hand sources now but this article touches on it:

https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/opaRvBMRcuk7pWbZD/smoking-ci...

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#462

Post by throw827474737 »

PaulRobinson wrote: post #243
chongli wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have to ban smokers to ban smoking on a sub. Smokers don't have to smoke, they merely choose to do so.

As an ex-smoker, I'd ask you to consider it as about the most addictive thing going. Think of something you really, really like doing. Something that calms or pleases you every time you do it. Like, playing a game, or reading a book, or eating your favourite food. Now imagine someone telling you that you don't have to do that, it's just a choice. Imagine being deprived of it and being guilt-tripped into it. Sure you…

As an ex smoker, I found quitting smoking one of the easiest things to do, just knew and decided it is time to stop now.. so I'm always surprised why is that. Also recently just going interval fasting for first time in my life because becoming a bit fat, not any problem, at all strangely.

I wonder why that is, I wouldn't think I have a super strong will or just cannot be addicted, if I consider gaming or other procrastination habits..

But what definitely please shouldn't be done here is to put it into a category of "the most addictive thing" where really just heroine, true aclohol addiction, and similar drugs belong. Heroine/alcohol is nearly impossible to fight through with just own willpower. Objectively!

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#463

Post by DebtDeflation »

Stratoscope wrote: post #43
j_m_b wrote: post #7

It's tough to portray just how ubiquitous smoking was to a modern audience. You would go to a restaurant and the first thing your hostess would ask is "smoking or non"? I remember standing in a checkout line in the 80s as a child and being fascinated with the billowing clouds of smoke an old lady blew. I remember coming home from bars reeking of smoke, even though I didn't. Even teachers had their own lounges that re…

Smoking or non? Looks like you're about 25 years younger than me. When I was a kid, there was no such thing as a nonsmoking section. Of course you could smoke, anywhere! Us kids didn't get real tobacco cigarettes, but we always had candy cigarettes so we could "smoke" along with the grown-ups. https://www.google.com/search?q=candy+cigarette&tbm=isch One difference from today was that our candy cigarettes had brand na…

I'll never forget the cigarette vending machines that were in the entrance area of every supermarket around here in the 1970s and 1980s. They had very distinctive clear acrylic "knobs" attached to long metal rods, that you would pull to dispense a pack of cigarettes after depositing money. It was a design unlike any other vending machine I've ever seen.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#464

Post by bombolo »

johannes1234321 wrote: post #283
eyelidlessness wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only speaking for myself as a smoker: I can smell it very prominently indoors without powerful ventilation. I don’t like it for me and don’t want to inflict it on others. I either steer clear of people outdoors, or put it out if they’re going to be nearby. The only exception is if they want to interact with me individually while I’m smoking, then I stand as far away as I can for the interaction they invited.

I think this changed with increase in non-smoking areas. Back a few decades it was normal that cigarette smoke was everywhere. Trains, restaurants, offices, factories, at home, ... it was just normal. Nowadays in many places it is more notable.

When I was a child I hated going to restaurants in the winter because we'd have to sit in a cloud of smoke.

Otherwise at home and school there was no smoke.

Smoke was theoretically already forbidden everywhere but nobody cared.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#465

Post by unwind »

DebtDeflation wrote: post #463
Stratoscope wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smoking or non? Looks like you're about 25 years younger than me. When I was a kid, there was no such thing as a nonsmoking section. Of course you could smoke, anywhere! Us kids didn't get real tobacco cigarettes, but we always had candy cigarettes so we could "smoke" along with the grown-ups. https://www.google.com/search?q=candy+cigarette&tbm=isch One difference from today was that our candy cigarettes had brand na…

I'll never forget the cigarette vending machines that were in the entrance area of every supermarket around here in the 1970s and 1980s. They had very distinctive clear acrylic "knobs" attached to long metal rods, that you would pull to dispense a pack of cigarettes after depositing money. It was a design unlike any other vending machine I've ever seen.

Something like this: [1]? Not sure if those are in fact not clear acrylic, or just grimed up.

[1]: https://whereandwander.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Vintag...

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#466

Post by spiralx »

mathieuh wrote: post #361
gambiting wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actual snus(powdered tabbaco sold and advertised as a product you put up your nose) isn't legal for sale in the UK: https://www.buynicotinepouches.co.uk/blogs/news/buying-snus-...

How is snus different from snuff? Cursory google seems to suggest you can buy snuff in the UK, which is also powdered tobacco that you put up your nose

Snus is something you put between your gum and lip.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#467

Post by dns_snek »

Dalewyn wrote: post #447
PaulRobinson wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I kindly suggest that you google "Is addiction a choice?" and "Is smoking addictive?" and learn a few things before taking such an absolutely absurd high-ground devoid of empathy or experience of either subject from the perspective of the person addicted to smoking. If the bar for joining the military or manning a submarine is that you had never made a poor choice in your adult life, it would be impossible to recruit…

I'm overly simplifying, but if policy is to not smoke and you can't (or refuse to) follow orders, you're out. Dishonorable discharge. Adults are not children, much less military personnel. Smoking is a choice and you are responsible for your choices. "It's an addiction." is a lazy, irresponsible excuse and escape.

You're confusing new choices with consequences of previous ones. Taking up smoking when you're fully aware that your job prohibits you from smoking is a choice and you're right - "It's an addiction" would be a poor excuse.

Quoting the context from a few replies ago:

> You don't have to ban smokers to ban smoking on a sub. Smokers don't have to smoke, they merely choose to do so.

Being asked to quit an addiction on demand is completely different, you don't "merely choose" to smoke every day. That's what makes it so difficult to escape addiction, it's not merely a choice like what you're going to have for lunch. Once you're addicted, your body psychologically and physically compels you to do it.

Would you say that giving up your passwords under the threat of being beaten with a $5 wrench is merely a choice? Addiction is like that, but it's your brain holding the $5 wrench.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#468

Post by aembleton »

leokennis wrote: post #437
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #5

The plummeting rates of smoking in the US is one of the rare areas where this country really shines when it comes to social welfare. Even many European states that have what I'd consider much more progressive social welfare systems have smoking rates that are appalling, often 3x or more the US rates.

In The Netherlands it's embarrassing. They basically had to beg supermarkets to stop selling cigarettes and then give them a years long transition period. It could be very easy. Ban the sales of tobacco to everyone born after "YYYY", make cigarettes cost €50 per pack, make smoking when not allowed a €100 fine, deposit all tax from tobacco sales into a national program where people get free "exercise credits" to be re…

At €50 per pack people would buy them on the black market.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#469

Post by jaclaz »

Dalewyn wrote: post #444
camillomiller wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smoking on planes is absolutely something I can't wrap my head around in any possible way. How the hell someone EVER thought it would be a good idea to let people smoke while packed inside a flying metal cylinder?

As unhealthy and disgusting as smokers' clouds are, that wasn't the truly dangerous thing. What was and still is dangerous are the open flames and high temperatures involved with smoking and other flammables. A fire aboard an aircraft can quickly lead to a crash, so the less flammables there are the better. You don't use fire on airplanes, end of.

Sure, but - statistically/historically - how many fires were recorded in airplanes due to smoking (or to the use of lighter or matches)?

Mind you, I do smoke but still find a good idea to ban smoke on board of aircrafts, though I don't think it has ever been a relevant risk (compared to all the risks implied in flights).

BTW (and AFAIK) the real issue (money) was the cost to the companies of cleaning/replacing the filters of the air circulation that mainly drove - as soon as it could be socially accepted - companies to ban smoking in aircrafts.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#470

Post by eggsmediumrare »

moffkalast wrote: post #438
skupig wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The effect is also stronger, lasts longer, and is less addictive than coffee. The average user isn't smoking a joint per hour like it was tobacco. Sure, it's definitely not healthy, but everyone does something that trades longevity for fun. :-)

Still, I'm not sure why someone would bother with the risks of smoking when edibles exist.

Edibles are a qualitatively different experience.
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