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Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

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Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#721

Post by calgoo »

FrontierPsych wrote: post #683
jandrewrogers wrote: post #647

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Context matters. The dynamics of the business are fundamentally different because many employees prefer tips to the alternative, and they have have many options where to work. Employees have a lot of leverage due to a chronic labor shortage. This dynamic has played out time and again in Seattle, where business owners tried to switch to a "no tipping" model with a 20% mandatory service charge but ultimately had to rel…

I don't like the proliferation of tipping everywhere. But I know many sit-down restaurants have tried to institute a no-tip policy, but both employees and customers hate it. I would hate it. I like giving tips. I wouldn't go to a restaurant where tipping was not allowed. Plus, the restaurant has to raise their prices up by 20% anyways, because they now have to pay their wait staff more. The customer pays anyways. So…

I see it completely different. Coming from the EU, I hate going to restaurants in the US because of the tipping culture. I dont mind leaving something if the service has been amazing, but then it might be 5e when the family have had a full meal etc. Being forced to pay part of the staff salary directly, with staff getting angry / annoyed when you dont leave enough is backwards to me. Its not that the math is hard, its about having to decide what your income is going to be based on how you work. Thats not my business to deal with, thats the management / workers business. I almost feel like it creates a culture of entitled people (Karen Generators), who believe they can do what they want.

Im also assuming that a lot of waiters dont pay taxes on the tips (at least when they are paid in cash), which would probably account for some of the difference in income between salary and tips. Here in the EU (most of the countries) at least we have good healthcare and education that is payed from those taxes, so you dont need to pay a 1k private insurance on a waiters salary.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#722

Post by ovi256 »

quickthrower2 wrote: post #704
qqtt wrote: post #573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is, that isn't how coffee shops typically operate in the United States, which is what makes it interesting. Operating a coffee shop without tips has special and unique considerations in the United States - chiefly, how to retain talent and employees when conventional wisdom would say it is better paying to get a job at a traditional tip-based coffee shop, which again, are plentiful in the United States. I w…

Are tips tax favourable? Because if not then replace $4 coffee and $1 tip with $5 coffee and just pay the staff more.

They are untaxed in practice, so yes, the most favourable.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#723

Post by michaelt »

quickthrower2 wrote: post #704
qqtt wrote: post #573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is, that isn't how coffee shops typically operate in the United States, which is what makes it interesting. Operating a coffee shop without tips has special and unique considerations in the United States - chiefly, how to retain talent and employees when conventional wisdom would say it is better paying to get a job at a traditional tip-based coffee shop, which again, are plentiful in the United States. I w…

Are tips tax favourable? Because if not then replace $4 coffee and $1 tip with $5 coffee and just pay the staff more.

Very much so, if you take them in cash and don't report them on your tax return.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#724

Post by lostlogin »

FrontierPsych wrote: post #683
jandrewrogers wrote: post #647

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Context matters. The dynamics of the business are fundamentally different because many employees prefer tips to the alternative, and they have have many options where to work. Employees have a lot of leverage due to a chronic labor shortage. This dynamic has played out time and again in Seattle, where business owners tried to switch to a "no tipping" model with a 20% mandatory service charge but ultimately had to rel…

I don't like the proliferation of tipping everywhere. But I know many sit-down restaurants have tried to institute a no-tip policy, but both employees and customers hate it. I would hate it. I like giving tips. I wouldn't go to a restaurant where tipping was not allowed. Plus, the restaurant has to raise their prices up by 20% anyways, because they now have to pay their wait staff more. The customer pays anyways. So…

> You know exactly what the price will be unless you failed 2nd grade math.

As a tourist to the US, it just seemed silly. The random sales tax percentage, the tip or no tip (calculated pre or post sales tax?) situation.

And due to the tipping thing, I had to carry cash, which I hadn’t done in 20+ years.

It felt like going back in time a very long way.

Ask for what you want, I’ll decide if I’ll pay it and I’ll come back if I liked the service.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#725

Post by tempestn »

quickthrower2 wrote: post #704
qqtt wrote: post #573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is, that isn't how coffee shops typically operate in the United States, which is what makes it interesting. Operating a coffee shop without tips has special and unique considerations in the United States - chiefly, how to retain talent and employees when conventional wisdom would say it is better paying to get a job at a traditional tip-based coffee shop, which again, are plentiful in the United States. I w…

Are tips tax favourable? Because if not then replace $4 coffee and $1 tip with $5 coffee and just pay the staff more.

But again, it's not that simple, because everyone coming into your coffee shop is going to be expecting to have to tip, so you need to properly manage those expectations. How the owner is planning to do that, and the results of those efforts, is interesting.

Edit: and while per the other replies many people don't claim (all of) their cash tips, you are supposed to claim them as income.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#726

Post by jl6 »

I dislike tipping because it turns every tip-eligible service interaction into a kind of low-key hustle. It drives a wedge of insincerity between staff and customers. Service in Europe with no expectation of tipping is a more human experience - it's just someone doing their job.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#727

Post by tsimionescu »

martopix wrote: post #703
tsimionescu wrote: post #684

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are other tipping cultures outside the USA, you know? Tipping is very common in the Balkans and other countries that were influenced by Ottoman culture, for example. While it is not expected, many coffee shops all around Europe also have tipping jars. It's really not common in much of Europe at least for people to actually discourage tipping (though they may seek to refuse what they perceive as exorbitant tips)…

> While it is not expected, That's the key point.

Sure, but the OP's cafe literally doesn't allow tipping, it's not that they don't expect them. That's what's bizarre/noteworthy on this front - and it's definitely not how every coffeeshop in the rest of the world operates.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#728

Post by richeyryan »

jacktribe wrote: post #481
kqr2 wrote: post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guessing it's this: https://awakening.bar/

Yep. Didn't want to share it because it's embarrassing how taped together that page is, but I had to put something up in an afternoon, because in the absence of a website people were taking photos of the menu on the iPads to take home.

I think the site looks grand. One suggestion would be to make your card background white rather than yellow. I think it would help with contrast against the background of the site and make the text easier to read. Other than that you have your opening times, your menu and your location, and it's all front and centre. The only thing I'd add is a map to make your location easier to find but that's not a huge deal.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#729

Post by hnick »

alwaysanon wrote: post #448
ddyevf635372 wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There isn't any tip in New Zealand and Australia. Everybody get proper salary. The service is always exceptional. How is that possible?

I am an American who has been living in Sydney for years and who stopped tipping here after getting used to it not being expected - but it has gotten a little weird/muddied of late. First it was Uber and the food delivery apps - and I did tip there because the app asked and I knew that in the gig economy the workers were not paid well (unlike others in Australia). Then I have been to a few restaurants lately that the…

You're correct, it's creeping in mostly due to cookie cutter POS machines setup for US market (I assume), and Doordash/Uber/etc apps and websites baking it in. I'd guess the payment machines can be setup to hide it, but management figures we have a "choice" (under light duress) to not tip so that's good enough. There are also a lot of international people working in hospitality so I guess they wouldn't be as against it as a lot of locals and just assume it's normal.

There are pretty much weekly hate threads on r/australia and similar places on Reddit about this as you'd expect.

One other thing I did notice - when travelling the US and reading reviews, a lot of people talk about the service. It's rarely mentioned in reviews over here in comparison unless it's an outlier. I personally found the fawning attention quite cloying in the US, but it's a different culture I guess. Wondering if that'll change if tips gain a foothold.

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