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Don't write on the whiteboard

jperla.com

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Re: Don't write on the whiteboard

#81

Post by calibraxis »

bethling wrote: post #44
ptmx wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps I'm just neurotic, but I do find it uncomfortable to write code with someone scrutinizing my work. When figuring out how to implement an efficient algorithm, I find that it's often helpful to perform exploratory steps before actually writing the algorithm. For instance, when I attempt a projecteuler puzzle that I don't immediately know the solution to, I'll usually try to compute the desired result for a few…

As an interviewer, I'd much rather see your intermediate steps - the messy parts, etc. I feel like I can get a better idea about how you work and think. Interview questions (for me) aren't about "can you solve this" they're more about trying to see how you work. I ask questions about decisions you made, and I like it if you can talk about what you're thinking. Interview problems are contrived. I don't care if you stu…

I don't like the fact that my observations affect what I'm observing, as an interviewer. If someone wishes to yak with me at each step, fine. Alternately, if they wish to silently cast about a bit in non-rational gestalt, maybe ask me odd questions or play with the data to get familiar with it, then converge on a bulletproof solution... also fine. I do not need to stick my probes in their mind to observe each step. There exist other methods to demonstrate how they collaborate.

Re: Don't write on the whiteboard

#82

Post by jrockway »

pslam wrote: post #18
random42 wrote: post #5

From an interviewer's perspective, the whiteboard gives me a chance to intervene to correct, explain, or provide hints, to the interviewee sooner/at the right time, which is not possible in pen-paper solutions, as I cannot see what the interviewee is doing till she shows me her work, unless I sit at the same side of the table as herself, which is odd for general discussion/talking. My advice to interviewees:- Practic…

I'm dumbfounded by the mentality of "I don't do XYZ" when you're going to an interview. Guess what? They'll find that arrogant. If you really do suck at using a whiteboard, here's a really far-out incredibly expensive and time consuming idea: Go to Office World and buy a small one for $10.

Personally, I would not be bothered by this. If the candidate really won't use a whiteboard, yeah, that's strange, but it's not going to sway my opinion one way or the other. Ultimately, interviews stress people out, and I take that into account when I'm analyzing someone's performance. I care about the programming ability of the person I'm interviewing, not their interviewing ability. The worse interviewing ability, actually, the less chance there is that they're going to leave. So actually, asking to not use the whiteboard might count in their favor :)

Re: Don't write on the whiteboard

#84

Post by GotToStartup »

ljlolel wrote: post #77
GotToStartup wrote: post #54

Great article with lots of valuable info in there. The part about the actual whiteboard is almost irrelevant. Most of the comments here are getting too worked up about that. "Learn Python and use it during your interview." Python is expressive, a high level and kind of writes like pseudo code. Just write pseudo code. The point isn't syntax anyways. "The highest value problems I know of are on Project Euler." I do enj…

Many companies (including the one in question) want to see actual code in a language that they use at the company. The fact that Python happens to look like pseudo-code is a bonus. Maybe you already knew all the lessons in Project Euler, but for me, I became a much better programmer. How elegant are your solutions? Have you tried writing them in a different style than you're used to? Say, in a functional style? With…

But if companies want to see actual code in a language they use, then learning python to use simply for interviewing wouldn't really work either right? So your only options would be "use any language but not just pseudo code" or interview for python jobs only.

Oh no, I certainly didn't know all the lessons and I haven't done all of them.

"How elegant are your solutions? Have you tried writing them in a different style than you're used to?" That's a great point, so I suppose it's less about the actual Project Euler problem, and more about optimizing, refactoring and trying them in different languages.

Re: Don't write on the whiteboard

#85

Post by paulhauggis »

thebandrews wrote: post #23
edw519 wrote: post #9

Sorry OP, I realize that you're just trying to be helpful sharing what's worked for you and I appreciate that, but frankly, I hate posts like this... I think the best preparation for any interview is to simply get good at what you do. All the rest is window dressing that distracts from that goal. Every minute spent practicing interviewing would be better spent building stuff. The natural byproduct of this will be exe…

Sorry Ed, but the best preparation for any interview is not simply getting good at what you do. Being good at what you do is a given. But there is an art to interviewing. I have bombed interviews not because of a lack of ability, but because of my failure to understand interview dynamics.

Exactly.

It's just like marketing. You can have the best product in the world (in this case, yourself). But, if you can't market it well, other products will be used instead (IE: you won't get hired).

Learning how to market myself is the single best thing I've learned how to do and it's definitely helped me get jobs.

Re: Don't write on the whiteboard

#86

Post by ljlolel »

GotToStartup wrote: post #84
ljlolel wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many companies (including the one in question) want to see actual code in a language that they use at the company. The fact that Python happens to look like pseudo-code is a bonus. Maybe you already knew all the lessons in Project Euler, but for me, I became a much better programmer. How elegant are your solutions? Have you tried writing them in a different style than you're used to? Say, in a functional style? With…

But if companies want to see actual code in a language they use, then learning python to use simply for interviewing wouldn't really work either right? So your only options would be "use any language but not just pseudo code" or interview for python jobs only. Oh no, I certainly didn't know all the lessons and I haven't done all of them. "How elegant are your solutions? Have you tried writing them in a different styl…

> That's a great point, so I suppose it's less about the actual Project Euler problem, and more about optimizing, refactoring and trying them in different languages.

Exactly. Make it better.

Re: Don't write on the whiteboard

#87

Post by reledi »

barkingllama wrote: post #11
edw519 wrote: post #9

Sorry OP, I realize that you're just trying to be helpful sharing what's worked for you and I appreciate that, but frankly, I hate posts like this... I think the best preparation for any interview is to simply get good at what you do. All the rest is window dressing that distracts from that goal. Every minute spent practicing interviewing would be better spent building stuff. The natural byproduct of this will be exe…

I'm glad the author mentioned Project Euler... I've never heard of it. Anyone else have experience with these problems? Is it a good way to improve your development skills?

Here's a list of sites I keep for ACM ICPC preparation or problem solving for fun:

http://livearchive.onlinejudge.org

http://coj.uci.cu/OnlineJudge

http://www.spoj.pl

http://uva.onlinejudge.org

http://acm.timus.ru

http://acm.sgu.ru

http://acm.zju.edu.cn

http://plg.uwaterloo.ca/~acm00

http://cs.stanford.edu/group/acm

http://dwite.ca

https://www.facebook.com/careers/puzzles.php

http://code.google.com/codejam/contests.html

http://projecteuler.net

http://www.codechef.com

http://www.interviewstreet.com

Re: Don't write on the whiteboard

#88

Post by bethling »

ljlolel wrote: post #78
bethling wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The natural posture, position, and size of writing on paper discourages that. It's also essentially impossible for me to step in and point to/mark up their code (and then erase it). The paper takes away any of the collaboration that can occur during an interview. Your code might be better, but I have trouble seeing that you'd be able to project as a positive impression as if you used the whiteboard.

Parents of children and teachers don't seem to have a problem with paper.

I don't have a problem with paper - I just feel like it would work against a candidate - not because "Oh...they used paper", but because some of the things that I think are signs of a good candidate don't show through.

I've never interviewed a candidate that asked me to use paper, so I can't be sure - it's just my instinct.

It might be completely biased though - I far prefer to use whiteboards - I love the space, I love how easy it is to erase without a trace. I can throw thoughts up there and the manipulate them.

Re: Don't write on the whiteboard

#89

Post by jbri »

Herring wrote: post #57

Did anyone get the O(document size) solution? I can't see how it would work without checking each word against the list.

Set up a trie containing each phrase in the vocabulary. Repeatedly match phrases starting at the current word against the trie, stopping at the longest matching phrase. Link that and reset from the first non-matching word.

The end result is O(n) in the number of characters in the document.

Re: Don't write on the whiteboard

#90

Post by kabdib »

I've done interviews both ways (paper and whiteboard), on both sides of the fence.

It's never been a big deal.

I /have/ seen candidates fail because they insisted on using a laptop. But these folks were typically very nervous about coding, and had essentially pre-failed the interview in their head. Their laptop was a security blanket, a totem that they hoped would sustain them, and it didn't work.

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