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The Disappearance of the Ashtray

clivethompson.medium.com

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Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#281

Post by Tor3 »

fortran77 wrote: post #101
relwin wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I shared an office with a smoker back in the day -- one or two smoking visitors would leave a cloud hanging for an hour. About 10 years later (several years into the smoking ban in the U.S. workplace) went on a business trip to Japan where all the smokers at work were confined to a small "smoking lounge." You couldn't see their faces through the window due to the thick smoke! Nowadays I can easily smell someone smoki…

My first computer programming jobs, everybody smoked. Our ADM-3A terminals had cigarette burns on them.

I used to travel around the world upgrading software and hardware in computer rooms. In one place people smoked in the computer room - because their boss did, so they ignored the ban too. In that one computer room the hard disks had to be reformatted approximately once every two or three months, due to errors (and that would update the internal sector error list so that the disk could continue to function). This never happened anywhere else, the equipment was exactly the same everywhere but disks didn't fail at the other sites. Can't be sure but the only difference with that site was that people smoked in the computer room (those disks weren't airtight).

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#282

Post by noduerme »

camillomiller wrote: post #256
noduerme wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Stop for a minute and think about the psychology of what you’ve just written. Instead of getting angry at aviation corporations who save money and maximize profits by degrading the quality of the very air you breath, you direct your anger towards other passengers and their kids. As they would against you. That said, you shouldn’t be allowed to smoke and masks should be mandatory on planes still in my opinion.

>> Instead of getting angry at aviation corporations who save money and maximize profits by degrading

Sorry! I skipped over the part where I was disturbed and disgusted at the fact that American had cut their filter expense by 80%. My friend's dad was not a smoker but was also appalled that the airline took that decision once they were free from the particulate strictures imposed by cigarettes, because he believed it made the air in the cabin filthy.

So, overlaying all of my angst about children and anti-smoking zealots, I do understand that we've all been thrown into this arena by corporations who have lowered my standard of living. Those corporations have, to be fair, raised the standard of living of people who fly with 3 sick kids to Hawaii, when from my perspective without massive credit they would be raising those kids in a coal mine. In a way, it's almost socialism.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#283

Post by johannes1234321 »

eyelidlessness wrote: post #225
ornornor wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect they also don’t really want to know how strong and obnoxious the smell is to the rest of us.

Only speaking for myself as a smoker: I can smell it very prominently indoors without powerful ventilation. I don’t like it for me and don’t want to inflict it on others. I either steer clear of people outdoors, or put it out if they’re going to be nearby. The only exception is if they want to interact with me individually while I’m smoking, then I stand as far away as I can for the interaction they invited.

I think this changed with increase in non-smoking areas.

Back a few decades it was normal that cigarette smoke was everywhere. Trains, restaurants, offices, factories, at home, ... it was just normal. Nowadays in many places it is more notable.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#284

Post by chongli »

jdkoeck wrote: post #277
chongli wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My father smoked for many years before quitting. I have two roommates that are smokers. The difference between him and them is that he wanted to quit, so he did. They continue to smoke because they do not want to quit. It’s as simple as that.

Right, so the reason there are thousands of books and methods about quitting smoking isn’t because it’s hard, it’s because people don’t really want to. Or maybe they’re stupid? Got it.

I didn’t say it was easy, or that people who smoke are stupid, I said it was a choice. If you choose to quit smoking then you’ll succeed.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#285

Post by chrisco255 »

camillomiller wrote: post #256
noduerme wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Stop for a minute and think about the psychology of what you’ve just written. Instead of getting angry at aviation corporations who save money and maximize profits by degrading the quality of the very air you breath, you direct your anger towards other passengers and their kids. As they would against you. That said, you shouldn’t be allowed to smoke and masks should be mandatory on planes still in my opinion.

Covid exists, it always will at this rate, and the rest of us won't be suffering for your insecurity about your own immune system. You wear a mask if you like. If it works, you have nothing to worry about.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#286

Post by quickthrower2 »

camillomiller wrote: post #88
Stratoscope wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smoking or non? Looks like you're about 25 years younger than me. When I was a kid, there was no such thing as a nonsmoking section. Of course you could smoke, anywhere! Us kids didn't get real tobacco cigarettes, but we always had candy cigarettes so we could "smoke" along with the grown-ups. https://www.google.com/search?q=candy+cigarette&tbm=isch One difference from today was that our candy cigarettes had brand na…

Smoking on planes is absolutely something I can't wrap my head around in any possible way. How the hell someone EVER thought it would be a good idea to let people smoke while packed inside a flying metal cylinder?

Admirial Cloudberg covered at least one crash caused by fire caused by a cigarette. The response from the industry: smoke alarms. Banning smoking too was unthinkable!

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#287

Post by noduerme »

stonogo wrote: post #257
noduerme wrote: post #240

Smoking is divine. Eh, sorry, I mean Cigarettes are Sublime https://www.dukeupress.edu/cigarettes-are-sublime Ashtrays may go along into the dark arts of secret knowledge, along with hooking up a modem, coding your own BBS, repairing your own leather boots, starting a fire to cook dinner over, etc. But something human, something tactile, something that carries with it dangers and pleasures and the competence to deter…

It would be a lot easier to agree with you if the tobacco companies hadn't spent decades of time and millions of dollars trying to gaslight the world about the consequences of smoking, aiming advertising at children, and generally making comic-book villains of themselves. Unfortunately they fought so uncompromisingly to avoid having to cede even the slightest of their market that they made complete ostracization the…

It's fine - this is not in defense of RJR or something. I truly love to smoke. I love to smoke a pipe, to feel the sting of the smoke and the richness and then take a glass of wine next to it, taste the leather and dried fruit interacting with the bittersweet tobacco. I love to roll cigarettes, the act of doing so for others and for myself, delaying the intense pleasure of the flick of the lighter and the sound of the burning leaves. I love a cigar, the method of it, the intensity of its flavor next to a glass of rye whisky, turning both into chocolate and raspberries, the sheer pleasure of each wave of smoke entering your mouth.

I'm not defending tobacco companies. I just fuckin love tobacco. Dig?

[edit] I did not steal these lines from "Cigarettes are Sublime" - they're my own personal feelings. I can't seem to find my copy of that book.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#288

Post by secretsatan »

j_m_b wrote: post #7

It's tough to portray just how ubiquitous smoking was to a modern audience. You would go to a restaurant and the first thing your hostess would ask is "smoking or non"? I remember standing in a checkout line in the 80s as a child and being fascinated with the billowing clouds of smoke an old lady blew. I remember coming home from bars reeking of smoke, even though I didn't. Even teachers had their own lounges that re…

Switzerland still has a strong tobacco lobby, and while it varies from kanton to kanton, there are still full smoking bars, usually not allowed to be above a certain size limit, then there's rules for larger bars, where maybe they have a fumoire, or non smoking areas must be accessible without having to go through smoking areas.

If I'm honest, the smoking bars tend to be either awful, or very cool, there's still something about a hazy atmosphere, usually dark with good music and the right mix of people, I still find a lot of newer bars rather sterile and bland.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#289

Post by jamil7 »

j_m_b wrote: post #7

It's tough to portray just how ubiquitous smoking was to a modern audience. You would go to a restaurant and the first thing your hostess would ask is "smoking or non"? I remember standing in a checkout line in the 80s as a child and being fascinated with the billowing clouds of smoke an old lady blew. I remember coming home from bars reeking of smoke, even though I didn't. Even teachers had their own lounges that re…

Still quite normal in bars and clubs in Berlin and likely other parts of Europe. Technically it’s not allowed but isn’t enforced and no one really cares. I don’t mind that as a non-smoker but would find it pretty awful in a restaurant or cafe.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#290

Post by chrisco255 »

myroon5 wrote: post #158
j_m_b wrote: post #7

It's tough to portray just how ubiquitous smoking was to a modern audience. You would go to a restaurant and the first thing your hostess would ask is "smoking or non"? I remember standing in a checkout line in the 80s as a child and being fascinated with the billowing clouds of smoke an old lady blew. I remember coming home from bars reeking of smoke, even though I didn't. Even teachers had their own lounges that re…

Almost half the states still haven't banned smoking indoors in public places: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_smoking_bans_in_the_Un... Still common in bars in those states

While it is common in some bars, it's no longer common in restaurants at all. I've lived in Texas for 5 years and haven't once seen a restaurant with a smoking section. It's usually outside if at all.
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