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How Equifax Became a Private IRS

mattstoller.substack.com

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Re: How Equifax Became a Private IRS

#71

Post by thephyber »

vuln wrote: post #36
kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Equifax collects data that isn't true and libels its victims by disseminating it to other parties. Having that power enshrined within the government would not be a good thing.

Only when you give said company authorization to review your credit worthiness, then they may attempt to pull your credit information. Your information is not broadcasted to all companies in existence only those who you've authorized (or have been authorized on your behalf by a malicious actor / identify thief). This is not udp.

Your first paragraph is true (to the extent that nobody pretends to have your authorization).

Your second paragraph is false, AFAIK. In the USA, credit bureaus are legally allowed to sell lots of your info to debt collectors and financial service companies. (According to DoanLaw.com) this is why you get “prescreening” offers for credit cards, mortgage refis, etc.

Re: How Equifax Became a Private IRS

#72

Post by czbond »

nwiswell wrote: post #46
jessaustin wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even in our most dystopian RAND-suggested bedtime story vision of a "communist hellhole", those proles who happened to possess a ruble when they got to the front of the breadline could buy a loaf. In the supercapitalist future, all transactions will require the approval of more than the two involved parties. Good luck buying anything if you ever express skepticism toward the great and powerful credit bureaus.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding something about the point you're making, but in 2023 the third party creditor already must approve any transactions where credit is extended (e.g. credit card) Credit bureaus remain uninvolved with cash transactions since, er, well, there's no creditor to be concerned about creditworthiness? I don't see how "supercapitalism" changes that

If you replace "Credit Bureau" with CBDC (Central Bank Digital Coin) it would ring very true or the probable future.

Re: How Equifax Became a Private IRS

#73

Post by gruez »

TheDong wrote: post #63
xxpor wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see where you're coming from, but on the other hand, the biggest rules are well known and quite simple: If you take a loan and pay it back on time, you'll have high credit. If you fail to meet your obligations, you won't. The existence of an underclass which is constantly on the edge of not being able to pay their bills is true though.

My parents taught me that debt was bad. They told me that credit cards were traps to get you into debt, that preyed on poor impulse control, and that it was better not to have one. If you can't tell, my parents grew up in a time when the credit score system didn't really matter, and didn't understand it. I did not get a credit card. I did not have any loans, for school or anything else. My credit score wasn't even a…

>My credit score wasn't even a number, it just didn't exist. Even the bank I banked with, which could see that I had more than $8k USD deposited monthly, that could see I had $30k in an account with them, would not give me a loan to buy a car.

Right, because it's a credit score, not a finance score. I'm not sure what you want here. Do you want credit bureaus to collect even more information about your financial life so they can have a more accurate picture?

Re: How Equifax Became a Private IRS

#74

Post by vuln »

thephyber wrote: post #71
vuln wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only when you give said company authorization to review your credit worthiness, then they may attempt to pull your credit information. Your information is not broadcasted to all companies in existence only those who you've authorized (or have been authorized on your behalf by a malicious actor / identify thief). This is not udp.

Your first paragraph is true (to the extent that nobody pretends to have your authorization). Your second paragraph is false, AFAIK. In the USA, credit bureaus are legally allowed to sell lots of your info to debt collectors and financial service companies. (According to DoanLaw.com) this is why you get “prescreening” offers for credit cards, mortgage refis, etc.

I don't disagree that the companies are selling your contact information and most likely some fuzzy information ranges (age, gender, martial status, rent/own, income) that's all that's really needed to snail mail "pre approvals" hint you're not really approved for anything until you sign to allow them to actually pull your credit. Preapproved just means you meet the minimum threshold of potentially making them more money than the cost of a 50 cent envelope/paper/bulk mailing rate.

Re: How Equifax Became a Private IRS

#75

Post by gruez »

sixstringtheory wrote: post #64
atdrummond wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My credit is tanked from an ex opening up accounts in my name and running up the tab while I was being treated for leukaemia and Crohns. Six years later and I’m still fixing the damage.

Fucking hell, why are people such monsters? That’s terrible to hear, hope you’re doing alright.

[deleted]

Re: How Equifax Became a Private IRS

#76

Post by Teever »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #28
coderintherye wrote: post #26

One thing Matt mentions but doesn't go into is how this could (should?) be a government service. In fact, there is the IRS's IVES program: https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/inco... but it is already fairly antiquated. There's a great opportunity here for the IRS to provide this service (with revenue from charging the requesting entities), with citizens being self-sovereign over what data is shar…

Equifax collects data that isn't true and libels its victims by disseminating it to other parties. Having that power enshrined within the government would not be a good thing.

That's a pretty disengenous argument.

I think you understand that the point of taking this course of action is to prevent/reduce these kinds of abuses from happening.

The goal isn't to enshrine abuse of authority in governmental agencies, but to prevent nongovernmental agencies from abusing that authority.

Re: How Equifax Became a Private IRS

#77

Post by ethbr0 »

vuln wrote: post #74
thephyber wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your first paragraph is true (to the extent that nobody pretends to have your authorization). Your second paragraph is false, AFAIK. In the USA, credit bureaus are legally allowed to sell lots of your info to debt collectors and financial service companies. (According to DoanLaw.com) this is why you get “prescreening” offers for credit cards, mortgage refis, etc.

I don't disagree that the companies are selling your contact information and most likely some fuzzy information ranges (age, gender, martial status, rent/own, income) that's all that's really needed to snail mail "pre approvals" hint you're not really approved for anything until you sign to allow them to actually pull your credit. Preapproved just means you meet the minimum threshold of potentially making them more m…

Outside of state laws and HIPAA, what national laws in the United States limit information sharing from a private party?

Re: How Equifax Became a Private IRS

#78

Post by gruez »

sidewndr46 wrote: post #30
xxpor wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see where you're coming from, but on the other hand, the biggest rules are well known and quite simple: If you take a loan and pay it back on time, you'll have high credit. If you fail to meet your obligations, you won't. The existence of an underclass which is constantly on the edge of not being able to pay their bills is true though.

No, that isn't even remotely how it works. My credit score has gone down consistently after getting rid of all my debt.

If you understand how credit scores work, you'd realize that what you've experienced doesn't contradict the parent's claim. Specifically, having low credit utilization (ie. low credit used compared to available credit) and high diversity of accounts is beneficial for your credit score. Closing accounts is bad for both of these, hence why your credit score dropped. It doesn't invalidate the parent's claim that you can have good credit by just using credit and paying it back on time. FWIW I have a few credit cards that I pay on time every month, and my credit score is pretty good.

Re: How Equifax Became a Private IRS

#79

Post by tspike »

gruez wrote: post #75
sixstringtheory wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fucking hell, why are people such monsters? That’s terrible to hear, hope you’re doing alright.

[deleted]

I think it’s fairly clear the monster here is the ex that took advantage of a vulnerable person.

Re: How Equifax Became a Private IRS

#80

Post by thephyber »

vuln wrote: post #74
thephyber wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your first paragraph is true (to the extent that nobody pretends to have your authorization). Your second paragraph is false, AFAIK. In the USA, credit bureaus are legally allowed to sell lots of your info to debt collectors and financial service companies. (According to DoanLaw.com) this is why you get “prescreening” offers for credit cards, mortgage refis, etc.

I don't disagree that the companies are selling your contact information and most likely some fuzzy information ranges (age, gender, martial status, rent/own, income) that's all that's really needed to snail mail "pre approvals" hint you're not really approved for anything until you sign to allow them to actually pull your credit. Preapproved just means you meet the minimum threshold of potentially making them more m…

Agree that most of the data needed for a generic prescreening is available from lots of data brokerage (doesn’t necessarily need a credit bureau), but that DoanLaw.com article I read to verify my memory states that credit bureaus may legally sell some data points that can only accurately be sourced from a credit bureau.
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