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The Disappearance of the Ashtray

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Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#21

Post by microtherion »

j_m_b wrote: post #7

It's tough to portray just how ubiquitous smoking was to a modern audience. You would go to a restaurant and the first thing your hostess would ask is "smoking or non"? I remember standing in a checkout line in the 80s as a child and being fascinated with the billowing clouds of smoke an old lady blew. I remember coming home from bars reeking of smoke, even though I didn't. Even teachers had their own lounges that re…

> You would go to a restaurant and the first thing your hostess would ask is "smoking or non"?

I remember being asked this the first time I visited the US in the early 1990. To me, this was downright progressive: In Switzerland, at the time, you did NOT have the choice of a non-smoking section available.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#22

Post by dudul »

gumby wrote: post #18
j_m_b wrote: post #7

It's tough to portray just how ubiquitous smoking was to a modern audience. You would go to a restaurant and the first thing your hostess would ask is "smoking or non"? I remember standing in a checkout line in the 80s as a child and being fascinated with the billowing clouds of smoke an old lady blew. I remember coming home from bars reeking of smoke, even though I didn't. Even teachers had their own lounges that re…

Do you remember professors smoking in class or office hours? The student smoking area in high school?

There was a smocking area for students in my high school. Never seen anyone smocking in classrooms though.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#23

Post by TheRealPomax »

colechristensen wrote: post #19
TheRealPomax wrote: post #10

Looking forward to the day where the rest of Not-New-Zealand goes "actually, yeah, let's just ban this nonsense, this industry does not need to exist", and then have that industry cease to exist over the course of a, really too generous, "only existing addicts can buy your product" period.

Why? Like I get that it’s a nuisance when other people don’t have a choice but be forced to be around it which makes restaurant and workplace bans make sense, can’t you let people make their own choices though? I like to smoke very occasionally and am not at all addicted, a lot of people are like this. Way too little to have meaningful effect sizes on long term health.

Time to read up on how NZ implemented it. Already smoke, even if incidentally? You're 100% unaffected, you can still buy them until you die from old age. Too young? Cool, you're never going to get ciggies sold to you, and you're not going to miss suddenly no longer have access to them because you never did anyway. No one loses. It's a very long term solution, and one that (the current forms of) the US or Europe could never pass.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#24

Post by burnished »

brazed_blotch wrote: post #14
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #5

The plummeting rates of smoking in the US is one of the rare areas where this country really shines when it comes to social welfare. Even many European states that have what I'd consider much more progressive social welfare systems have smoking rates that are appalling, often 3x or more the US rates.

On the other hand, being constantly ostracised from public spaces isn’t great either… something I find infuriating when I travel abroad. If there were at least a few smoking bars where you don’t have to go out into the cold to smoke I think that would be nice.

Eugh, god, no. It isnt ostracism if you are being asked to go outside because you want to light something on fire.

That being said you arent alone in this desire. The work around appears to be clubs with a membership fee and volunteer bartenders (at least where I live). If its something that pops up for you frequently then it might be worthwhile to pursue.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#25

Post by colechristensen »

TheRealPomax wrote: post #23
colechristensen wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Like I get that it’s a nuisance when other people don’t have a choice but be forced to be around it which makes restaurant and workplace bans make sense, can’t you let people make their own choices though? I like to smoke very occasionally and am not at all addicted, a lot of people are like this. Way too little to have meaningful effect sizes on long term health.

Time to read up on how NZ implemented it. Already smoke, even if incidentally? You're 100% unaffected, you can still buy them until you die from old age. Too young? Cool, you're never going to get ciggies sold to you, and you're not going to miss suddenly no longer have access to them because you never did anyway. No one loses. It's a very long term solution, and one that (the current forms of) the US or Europe could…

That is missing the point of letting people make their own choices.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#26

Post by gnicholas »

TheRealPomax wrote: post #23
colechristensen wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Like I get that it’s a nuisance when other people don’t have a choice but be forced to be around it which makes restaurant and workplace bans make sense, can’t you let people make their own choices though? I like to smoke very occasionally and am not at all addicted, a lot of people are like this. Way too little to have meaningful effect sizes on long term health.

Time to read up on how NZ implemented it. Already smoke, even if incidentally? You're 100% unaffected, you can still buy them until you die from old age. Too young? Cool, you're never going to get ciggies sold to you, and you're not going to miss suddenly no longer have access to them because you never did anyway. No one loses. It's a very long term solution, and one that (the current forms of) the US or Europe could…

What happens to immigrants or tourists? Is vaping included? I don't smoke but am curious about how this type of phase out system works.

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#27

Post by pixl97 »

colechristensen wrote: post #25
TheRealPomax wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Time to read up on how NZ implemented it. Already smoke, even if incidentally? You're 100% unaffected, you can still buy them until you die from old age. Too young? Cool, you're never going to get ciggies sold to you, and you're not going to miss suddenly no longer have access to them because you never did anyway. No one loses. It's a very long term solution, and one that (the current forms of) the US or Europe could…

That is missing the point of letting people make their own choices.

I'm glad I got that choice of breathing my dads secondhand smoke growing up!

Um...

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#28

Post by gnicholas »

ilyt wrote: post #12

Cars too had them and the utility power socket was initially for car cigarette lighter (which was just a piece of metal that got very hot when turned on)

Yeah it's funny we still talk about plugging into a cigarette lighter, even though they haven't come with actual cigarette lighters in them for quite some time (at least here in California).

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#29

Post by tobyjsullivan »

bediger4000 wrote: post #15
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #5

The plummeting rates of smoking in the US is one of the rare areas where this country really shines when it comes to social welfare. Even many European states that have what I'd consider much more progressive social welfare systems have smoking rates that are appalling, often 3x or more the US rates.

That's probably due to insurance companies charging huge amounts more health insurance for smokers.

The smoking rate in Canada is far lower than the United States, despite having universal healthcare. I think it's more cultural than financially driven (though aggressive taxation of tobacco could be a factor if that's a thing in the US, too).

Re: The Disappearance of the Ashtray

#30

Post by nanidin »

bediger4000 wrote: post #15
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #5

The plummeting rates of smoking in the US is one of the rare areas where this country really shines when it comes to social welfare. Even many European states that have what I'd consider much more progressive social welfare systems have smoking rates that are appalling, often 3x or more the US rates.

That's probably due to insurance companies charging huge amounts more health insurance for smokers.

IIRC the difference when applying for insurance on the healthcare marketplace for 2023 was like $5/month (out of $700 total - so less than 1% more).
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