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Commercial 3D printers emit traces of toxic fumes, study finds (2019)

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Re: Commercial 3D printers emit traces of toxic fumes, study finds (2019)

#131

Post by freetime2 »

Are people still printing with ABS? I was under the impression that everybody uses PLA most of the time, and has moved on to PETG for applications requiring higher durability [1]. I suppose ABS still has a couple of desireable properties, such as being able to smooth the surface with acetone vapor, but seems pretty niche at this point.

That being said - it's still important to have adequate ventilation when running a 3d printer no matter which type of filament you are using.

[1] https://all3dp.com/2/petg-vs-abs-3d-printing-filaments-compa...

Re: Commercial 3D printers emit traces of toxic fumes, study finds (2019)

#132

Post by yreg »

Ekaros wrote: post #58
Throwaway045814 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean the recently highlighted issue of gas stoves, or do you mean something that affects electrical stoves as well?

Purely an anecdote, but when I cook something with my induction range or even air fryer or oven my air purifier goes from 1 to 9 or even 12 (1-12 scale). And it is somewhat outside the kitchen. So yeah, there is probably lot going on. From simple water vapor to those by products that come with browning.

Depends on the sensor in your purifier, right? If it just optically counts particles in the air it should trigger by harmless water vapor.

Re: Commercial 3D printers emit traces of toxic fumes, study finds (2019)

#133

Post by misterprime »

GuB-42 wrote: post #130
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In 3d printing circles and even 3d printer instruction manuals this has been written for years now... PLA is worse material (especially in regards for UV), but can be done inside, while ABS needs a heated surface and emits poisonous gasses so it should be done in separate ventilated areas (same for resin printers).

Don't dismiss PLA. It is a great material, it is strong, cheap and easy to print. Its greatest weakness as far as I'm concerned is heat resistance. But there is a trick! You can anneal PLA in an oven, which will give it heat resistant properties similar to ABS, maybe a little better. It can be done with regular PLA, but the print will deform. If you don't need a very precise part, it can be sufficient, you can also c…

"releases nasty stuff, though it smells less"

Good info, and thanks for the heads up. With natural gas a smell-able component is added to help alert people to danger. Maybe the fact that it smells less is a problem.

Re: Commercial 3D printers emit traces of toxic fumes, study finds (2019)

#134

Post by Psychlist »

nirav72 wrote: post #125

I've been meaning to create an enclosure that many people do using the ikea lack tables. But haven't been able to find any plexiglass at local hardware store.

Unless you absolutely have to have a window, plywood also works. Maybe find an old flatbed scanner and reuse the bed as your window?

Re: Commercial 3D printers emit traces of toxic fumes, study finds (2019)

#135

Post by defrost »

Psychlist wrote: post #128
genderwhy wrote: post #118

People are saying 'ventilate'. Makes sense. I've got a resin printer in a large room with a crossbreeze, but I'd like to put in some more forced ventilation. Is there a quick thing I can buy that's got a small hood, inline fan, and waste vent? Or do I need to cobble something together myself out of flexible tubing? Is a portable hepa filter sufficient? I don't even know what to look for.

I'd start with a cheap kitchen rangehood, ideally with carbon filters (in Australia that's under $AU200) and either vent it outside to poison your neighbours or bang an air purifier on it. Sheets of perspex or light plywood as walls and you're good to go. I'm way more up on the filtration side because I live in the land of bushfire smoke and 3D printers appear to be particulate problems too so I would try particulate…

> either vent it outside to poison your neighbours or bang an air purifier on it.

Jeez, mate, there are better ways .. put in some lavender (or other scented prolifically growing dense foliage plant), divert some grey water (kitchen sink, bath, etc) to drain through that .. and vent through the bush.

It's like a self cleaning sweet scented air filter that traps particles and only gets better with time.

(And you can tell everyone it's advanced biotech).

Re: Commercial 3D printers emit traces of toxic fumes, study finds (2019)

#136

Post by Whitespace »

genderwhy wrote: post #118

People are saying 'ventilate'. Makes sense. I've got a resin printer in a large room with a crossbreeze, but I'd like to put in some more forced ventilation. Is there a quick thing I can buy that's got a small hood, inline fan, and waste vent? Or do I need to cobble something together myself out of flexible tubing? Is a portable hepa filter sufficient? I don't even know what to look for.

For my resin printer setup I bought a mylar-covered grow tent from Vivosun which has all the hookups necessary for an inline fan & carbon filter. I zip it up 95% of the way so it's negative pressure and pulling the fumes through the filter.

I can't smell anything after the filter—not even the 99% pure IPA which smells much worse than Siraya Tech Fast resin—so I don't bother venting outside when it's cold out; it vents into the unfinished basement side room.

I wear a respirator, thick rubber gloves, treat every surface as "hot," and UV cure all my paper towels and anything that resin touched.

My Ultimaker sits on the desk in my office and I mostly print on it at night. It doesn't get much use.

Re: Commercial 3D printers emit traces of toxic fumes, study finds (2019)

#137

Post by fnordpiglet »

GuB-42 wrote: post #130
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In 3d printing circles and even 3d printer instruction manuals this has been written for years now... PLA is worse material (especially in regards for UV), but can be done inside, while ABS needs a heated surface and emits poisonous gasses so it should be done in separate ventilated areas (same for resin printers).

Don't dismiss PLA. It is a great material, it is strong, cheap and easy to print. Its greatest weakness as far as I'm concerned is heat resistance. But there is a trick! You can anneal PLA in an oven, which will give it heat resistant properties similar to ABS, maybe a little better. It can be done with regular PLA, but the print will deform. If you don't need a very precise part, it can be sufficient, you can also c…

Yeah I prefer PLA unless I need rigidity for a functional part, in which case I use PETG. I’ve not found abs that awesome except for the ability to smooth it in acetone vapor.

PETG is supposed to be similarly relatively inert and safe compared to ABS and the vapors relatively non toxic. The problem is apparently fake PETG is quite common:

https://www.reddit.com/r/3Dprinting/comments/p8c85d/which_br...

These brands I would avoid as they must be using something other than PETG and likely have additives you don’t want to breathe.

Re: Commercial 3D printers emit traces of toxic fumes, study finds (2019)

#138

Post by nomel »

slimsag wrote: post #15
zhala wrote: post #7

I've seen these studies before and done some testing of my own and found this to be true to some degree. I've used PMSA003I and BME688 sensors to check for particulate and VOC's. I didn't notice any significant increase in PM1 or PM2.5 (which is probably to be expected since the particles emitted are probably <1um and lower than I can detect). I did see some increase in VOC's but nothing alarmingly high from baseline…

It's important to note that particulate matter and VOCs are not equal in danger and bodily effect. For some reason people act like they are all the same. It's like saying you got liquid in your eyes: the type of liquid matters an awful lot. In a lot of cases, the VOCs emitted when you melt plastics have "unknown" long term effects because nobody has been exposed to it in great levels for extended periods. We know som…

> This isn't true of candles, though. We have a pretty good idea of what candles can do to you.

For beeswax and simple paraffin. I'm not so sure this is what candles are made from these days. I've ordered some raw paraffin from Amazon, and it smelled like a chemical plant*. I've had a few candles from big box stores that smelled similar. I stopped using candles, because it appears their ingredients have strayed.

* Reviews can be found for "beeswax" saying the same.

Re: Commercial 3D printers emit traces of toxic fumes, study finds (2019)

#139

Post by GuB-42 »

iancmceachern wrote: post #88

Anytime you heat up plastic (melt it), or create a polymer from 2 parts (epoxy) there will be bad things released. This us fundamental to polymers. Check out all the urethane issues that early Disney imaganeers faced

There are many plastics and even more polymers. We usually reserve the terme "plastic" to synthetic materials but there are plastic-like materials in nature, like amber. Polymers includes things like proteins and DNA, basically what life is made of.

So saying that releasing "bad things" (what does it even mean?) is a fundamental property of polymers is a bit too much. What "bad things"? What plastics? What dose?

Re: Commercial 3D printers emit traces of toxic fumes, study finds (2019)

#140

Post by nomel »

Throwaway045814 wrote: post #48
eli wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Laser cutting brownies is probably fine. That said, there's plenty of evidence that fumes from cooking can negatively affect indoor air quality. You should always open a window when you cook.

You mean the recently highlighted issue of gas stoves, or do you mean something that affects electrical stoves as well?

> You mean the recently highlighted issue of gas stoves

I don't think it's a recent issue. It's law, where I live, to have ventilation to outdoors, at any source of combustion gasses. Most of the "recent" papers say that most of the problems can be removed by using that fan that's right above the oven, by law. I am surprised that it's not also law to have these fans turn on automatically.

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