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OpenAI and Microsoft extend partnership

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Re: OpenAI and Microsoft extend partnership

#261

Post by joe_the_user »

bayindirh wrote: post #163
londons_explore wrote: post #140

Let me translate this blog post out of corpspeak...: OpenAI has agreed to use Azure exclusively and for free, in return for Azure massively scaling up it's GPU capacity (which OpenAI was hitting before, hence threatening to move). In return, OpenAI gives an extensive license to Microsoft to use ChatGPT in Bing (and other products). Now why couldn't the blog post have just said that rather than hiding all the details?

Because they didn't want to openly say "Microsoft gives us GPUs and allows us to use them for free, hence practically buys us. In return we almost exclusively license what we produce to them, for free." Because it looks bad. Microsoft wants to be seen in a different light, and OpenAI wants to be perceived as an open, academic, capped-profit for a noble reason collective. It's all smoke and mirrors.

I'd just add that Microsoft already owned a significant portion of OpenAI through it's various earlier investments ($1 billion in 2019).

see: https://openai.com/blog/microsoft/

Re: OpenAI and Microsoft extend partnership

#262

Post by gen220 »

ProAm wrote: post #161
ethanbond wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Company with decades of going way, way out of norms to operate as an ethical organization at virtually every level does an additional virtuous task: oh ya that’s a tax dodge

It is, Im not saying they are 100% evil like some companies we discuss on HN. But this was a tax dodge. [1] [1] https://fortune.com/2022/09/16/patagonia-founder-legal-tax-l...

If you're Yvon Chouinard, whose goal is to keep Patagonia going in perpetuity as a funding vehicle for environmental activism, what else could you do?

For the record: he divided up the shares into voting and non-voting. He "donated" the dividend-earning shares into a 501c4 foundation whose mission is to invest in grass-roots environmental activism, and "donated" the voting-power shares into a separate trust, whose objectives are to ensure that Patagonia continues on the path he gave as an example for the previous decades and to hold the 501c4 accountable.

The boards of these organizations are composed of the people whom he most trusts to fulfill his vision, a group of people that includes his children.

Knowing the full context of their lives, it's hard to see it as anything other than one of the more simple solutions to a complicated problem.

Re: OpenAI and Microsoft extend partnership

#263

Post by funnymony »

kenjackson wrote: post #158
londons_explore wrote: post #140

Let me translate this blog post out of corpspeak...: OpenAI has agreed to use Azure exclusively and for free, in return for Azure massively scaling up it's GPU capacity (which OpenAI was hitting before, hence threatening to move). In return, OpenAI gives an extensive license to Microsoft to use ChatGPT in Bing (and other products). Now why couldn't the blog post have just said that rather than hiding all the details?

What happens to the non-profit aspect of OpenAI as a result of this deal? How much money are we talking about, that is, what's the scale of the deal? Do you have any proof that building on Azure will work for OpenAI?

Accounting tricks will make it look zero profit.

Re: OpenAI and Microsoft extend partnership

#264

Post by zalyh »

impulser_ wrote: post #193

Microsoft being late to the party is going to cost them a lot of money. Google and Facebook are the clear leaders in AI and they been spending a lot of money building out their AI infrastructure over the last decade. You haven't heard much about Microsoft's investments other than them buying rights to OpenAI models. Seems like they could have saved a lot of money if they started investing years ago. Google bought Dee…

I mean, are they late to all the parties though? I think ChatGPT has the momentum to corner the end-user market. It's one of the best tools out there that can help writers, developers and any profession that uses text communication.

Google and Facebook might be better at some things, and maybe Apple too. But none of them has brought to market a chatbot that works pretty well(and not just as a party trick) and is very accessible to anyone on the Internet. I would love it if open up Siri such that I can communicate with it on a site just like ChatGPT.

Re: OpenAI and Microsoft extend partnership

#265

Post by zalyh »

lancesells wrote: post #79
SomeDog76 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have the feeling Bing is on the way to overtake Google even without OpenAI, recently google results seem to struggle more and more. Whenever I am trying to remember a word, if I type something similliar sounding google will give me no results at all. Bing (I use DDG which serves Bing results) will most of the time figure out what I was trying to find.

I'm a DDG user as well and I feel it's getting loaded with spam links much like Google. Usually my most confident searches are watching a YouTube video on what I'm looking for. I would prefer text to video but it seems that's where we're headed until video becomes cheaper than text to produce (unlikely).

Same here, it pisses me off to see a lot of those spam sites being ranked that high on google. YouTube is a mixed bag too particularly when you trying to troubleshoot an issue or learn more about a particular feature of Product X. All you get are reviews of Product X returned from the search.

Re: OpenAI and Microsoft extend partnership

#266

Post by quonn »

impulser_ wrote: post #193

Microsoft being late to the party is going to cost them a lot of money. Google and Facebook are the clear leaders in AI and they been spending a lot of money building out their AI infrastructure over the last decade. You haven't heard much about Microsoft's investments other than them buying rights to OpenAI models. Seems like they could have saved a lot of money if they started investing years ago. Google bought Dee…

400m then, which is more now and it also didn‘t run for free the last eight years.

Google and Facebook may have good research teams, but so far they don‘t seem to be able to use them to ship products (with some exceptions, mostly incremental improvements to quality of existing products) and that‘s what will count.

Re: OpenAI and Microsoft extend partnership

#267

Post by throwaway29812 »

OnlineGladiator wrote: post #218
meowkit wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The argument then becomes how to interpret "Open", not that you both agree. If they keep publishing their research, then OpenAI seems like a fine name to me.

And Russia never invaded Ukraine. You can stretch the meaning of a word all you want, it doesn't change the fact that the people misrepresenting the word are acting in bad faith.

What?

Re: OpenAI and Microsoft extend partnership

#268

Post by logicallee »

drdaeman wrote: post #252
logicallee wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You ask "does anyone believe this"? I decided to think about whether I believe OpenAI is "open, academic, capped-profit for a noble reason collective". I'll list some pros/contras in no particular order: CONTRA: I can't download ChatGPT and run it locally. Why not? Clearly they are hoarding it. PRO: They genuinely overtrain toward responses that the model judges benefit humanity, to the point of failing at the task.…

It doesn't have to publish the models, but everything necessary to do so (training toolset, code that runs the model itself, etc). I think over 99.999% of people would be totally cool if it'd be "Hey, we ran this on a crazy number of GPUs feeding it half of the Internet and then some, and got a damn fine model you can try on our site. It costed us an arm and leg so we can't just share it with everyone for free. But i…

I'm the opposite, I think they should be able to hold on to the tooling to use it to further develop their processes and have the most up to date version, while releasing past versions. This is similar to what some game companies did that was pretty open. For example Quake was released as open source by Id Software in 1999 after the game's initial release 1996. (And Quake 3 was open sourced in 2005 after the game was originally released in 1999.) I think that is what would maximize the public's benefit.

Your suggestion only opens it up to companies with very large dollar budgets - do you think any of them would release their resulting model? So how does the public access any of it? None of the ChatGPT models are ever actually released then and unlike the open sourced Quake example, the public doesn't benefit from access to them. It would be like if Id software just released its tooling for other game companies to copy, but not the actual game.

Re: OpenAI and Microsoft extend partnership

#269

Post by collaborative »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #250
jacooper wrote: post #40

Microsoft is handling the AI revolution extremely well. They see the potential brand damage that comes with a such a product, so they probably just hold less than 50% of the company, to be able to say "this is not us". Which then allows openAI to experiment and wow people, while google is anxious about showing 10% of its crazy AI capabilities to avoid potential PR disasters.

Agreed. MS has managed this extremely well. They've gone from Tay bot a few years ago to this. 1) they've recognized that none of this could emerge out of a corporate research department of a major trillion $ company. Just too rigid and constrained by day to day business concerns (e.g. Tay bot) 2) they recognized the strategic value to their business regardless of that risk (can't afford to let some more nimble playe…

Just to add my 2 cents, SEO-infested results add insult to injury. I have now given up on using search and use ChatGPT 70% of the time. I wonder if others are doing the same and this is making SEO spam rank higher

And it wouldn't have been hard to fix this earlier. Simply down rank sites asking to sign up for notifications or showing popups after 5 seconds

Re: OpenAI and Microsoft extend partnership

#270

Post by jacooper »

collaborative wrote: post #269
jillesvangurp wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. MS has managed this extremely well. They've gone from Tay bot a few years ago to this. 1) they've recognized that none of this could emerge out of a corporate research department of a major trillion $ company. Just too rigid and constrained by day to day business concerns (e.g. Tay bot) 2) they recognized the strategic value to their business regardless of that risk (can't afford to let some more nimble playe…

Just to add my 2 cents, SEO-infested results add insult to injury. I have now given up on using search and use ChatGPT 70% of the time. I wonder if others are doing the same and this is making SEO spam rank higher And it wouldn't have been hard to fix this earlier. Simply down rank sites asking to sign up for notifications or showing popups after 5 seconds

If you are using ChatGPT, perplexity would be probably better, although it gives answers more like snippets than full answers.

It shows the sources it used, so its much more usable, rather than endless hallucinations that you can't easily catch.

https://www.perplexity.ai/

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