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Paper map sales are booming

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Re: Paper map sales are booming

#201

Post by squokko »

AlbertCory wrote: post #144
dljsjr wrote: post #49

Anybody remember Triptiks from AAA? You'd go to a AAA office or call them on the phone, tell them where you were going, and in return you'd get a printed spiral top-bound pad with your trip broken down in to multiple legs, the roads/routes pre-highlighted, gas stops and prices estimated in, a list of sites for stopping off at, etc. All human curated and human annotated (the roads on your route were literally gone ove…

There's still an AAA office that I drive past all the time. Never been in there, though. I should go and ask for a Triptik sometime. When I told people I went to Alaska, the inevitable answer was, "Oh, did you go on a cruise?" No, I didn't go on a forking cruise. Those are for lazy people. What I've started doing is booking a short (2-4 days) trip inside the country or state, and being independent before & after that…

Don't know why you hate cruises. Definitely the most cost effective way to see multiple spots on the Alaskan coastline.

Re: Paper map sales are booming

#202

Post by bumby »

navane wrote: post #191
dljsjr wrote: post #49

Anybody remember Triptiks from AAA? You'd go to a AAA office or call them on the phone, tell them where you were going, and in return you'd get a printed spiral top-bound pad with your trip broken down in to multiple legs, the roads/routes pre-highlighted, gas stops and prices estimated in, a list of sites for stopping off at, etc. All human curated and human annotated (the roads on your route were literally gone ove…

Most innovation sells you an inferior product for a lower price. It is almost never better than what was available in the past, just cheaper. Life becomes a series of more, but lower value experiences.

This is an interesting thought. What other examples are you thinking of besides the maps? And does this extend to innovations that create a whole new space, or is it just when innovation does an existing thing differently?

Re: Paper map sales are booming

#203

Post by ChuckMcM »

When we were home schooling our kids we got a map of the US from Imus Geographics [1] and it made it really easy to see the places that were being talked about in history and their relative position to other places. The map in general has a wealth of details and over the years we have often used it when planning camping trips around the west.

[1] https://www.imusgeographics.com/

Re: Paper map sales are booming

#204

Post by criley2 »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #200
massysett wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a lot of ways, electronic maps are still inferior to the Triptik. Even the Rand McNally showed highway rest areas and picnic areas. The Triptik also showed gas stations. Electronic maps often lack this entirely, at least in easy form. The Triptik shows what you need to know while on a long motor trip. The electronic map emphasizes details I don't need. At a glance the paper map tells me whether a road is free limi…

I'm pretty convinced that Google just doesn't understand information economics. In case you haven't noticed, Apple maps are getting better and better and I prefer their turn-by-turn directions over that of Google. The interesting thing is that Apple now offers "explore" vs "driving" maps, I hope they also add "walking" or "Cycling" maps. And because they aren't driven by advertising sales, the maps can be more useful…

Apple's solution isn't a serious contender because it's hardware locked to high end devices that the majority of people don't use / can't afford (the demographics of this community not withstanding).

While it's nice that their users can have an alternate first-party experience, that experience is not a publically available map. For example if you go to maps.apple.com you are told "Open this on your Apple Hardware".

(i.e. If 100% of Apple users used Apple Maps, Apple's best case scenario is still #2 in mapping)

Re: Paper map sales are booming

#205

Post by ghaff »

madcaptenor wrote: post #142
ghaff wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you're going to spend maybe a few thousand dollars to travel someplace (especially cities or other popular mainstream areas), not spending $15 or so on a Lonely Planet/Rough Guide/etc. seems like false economy. Is it definitive? No. But it's generally a well-curated guide to what people like.

Yes! And I'd probably pay, I don't know, fifty or a hundred bucks for a subset of Lonely Planet that's just the things I'd like.

LP does a pretty good job on digital too. I often default to physical for this sort of thing but admit to liking LP on phone just because it's with me without extra bulk/weight.

Re: Paper map sales are booming

#206

Post by ChuckMcM »

criley2 wrote: post #204
ChuckMcM wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty convinced that Google just doesn't understand information economics. In case you haven't noticed, Apple maps are getting better and better and I prefer their turn-by-turn directions over that of Google. The interesting thing is that Apple now offers "explore" vs "driving" maps, I hope they also add "walking" or "Cycling" maps. And because they aren't driven by advertising sales, the maps can be more useful…

Apple's solution isn't a serious contender because it's hardware locked to high end devices that the majority of people don't use / can't afford (the demographics of this community not withstanding). While it's nice that their users can have an alternate first-party experience, that experience is not a publically available map. For example if you go to maps.apple.com you are told "Open this on your Apple Hardware". (…

One could argue that "most" people[1] have iPhones (at least in the US). And yes it is only 22% world wide. But putting aside the currently available "seats" for a moment, at the point where is it clearly the better product then two things start happening

1) People start buying Apple hardware because it has a better map experience.

2) Apple can produce the iMap device, likely in cooperation with their maps partner TomTom, that people can use to get the Apple Maps experience without changing their phone provider.

[1] https://www.oberlo.com/statistics/us-smartphone-market-share

Re: Paper map sales are booming

#207

Post by skygazer »

bumby wrote: post #202
navane wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most innovation sells you an inferior product for a lower price. It is almost never better than what was available in the past, just cheaper. Life becomes a series of more, but lower value experiences.

This is an interesting thought. What other examples are you thinking of besides the maps? And does this extend to innovations that create a whole new space, or is it just when innovation does an existing thing differently?

I think this was the premise of the Innovator's Dilemma, which showed examples where disruptive competition comes from below, and catches big companies off guard, toppling them, all the while prior they were successfully optimizing their business, until poof.

Re: Paper map sales are booming

#208

Post by convolvatron »

marcosdumay wrote: post #159
kulahan wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Travel is such an personal thing - it's people in an environment at least somewhat foreign to them. Trusting someone to plan it is a pretty intimate thing, and companies don't do intimate things very well anymore. Too many people, too few companies. I'd pay good money for more personal experiences from companies, especially when it comes to something like this, but it's not easy. The wife and I were looking for a hon…

If it's something like what we had at my country, it's not a travel plan . It's a book, fully indexed, with searchable and fully reviewed information about the place you are going and the path in between. You use it to make your own plan, or to improvise. Specifically about improvisation, it has become almost impossible nowadays because there is no reliable information about anything.

monetization really screwed this up. having a connected computer in your pocket with the ability to search everything and make shelter and travel reservations and perform other important actions instantly should really be perfect for this.

but somehow I always end up having to sign up for a bunch of services in a hurry and take crappy pictures of my id only to find out that the hotel doesn't know anything about my reservation when I arrive anyways.

sometimes I even have to upgrade my phone while sitting on a curb to get the app to arrange for the payment etc .etc.

or that lovely looking and affordable Airbnb is next to an open sewer

Re: Paper map sales are booming

#209

Post by crtified »

controlch wrote: post #173

We recently had to define the boundaries of polygons that designate the various sectors of a city. We found that hand drawing them on a paper map was far more convenient than doing the same on a screen. This of course involves the initial design of the polygons and not the subsequent transformation to their respective coordinates, which inevitably had to be done using a map software.

In my experience, most land planning is done (or at least, starts) with a pencil on paper, even today. Technicians then take over the work of making it a detailed digital reality.

The computer is wonderful in so many ways, but it does not yet (in common usage) replicate the direct physical connection, the casual efficiency and universal understanding of the real world pencil-on-paper tool.

Re: Paper map sales are booming

#210

Post by drdec »

navane wrote: post #191
dljsjr wrote: post #49

Anybody remember Triptiks from AAA? You'd go to a AAA office or call them on the phone, tell them where you were going, and in return you'd get a printed spiral top-bound pad with your trip broken down in to multiple legs, the roads/routes pre-highlighted, gas stops and prices estimated in, a list of sites for stopping off at, etc. All human curated and human annotated (the roads on your route were literally gone ove…

Most innovation sells you an inferior product for a lower price. It is almost never better than what was available in the past, just cheaper. Life becomes a series of more, but lower value experiences.

The positive side of the trade off is that the technology is usually available to more people by being more affordable.
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