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Commercial 3D printers emit traces of toxic fumes, study finds (2019)

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Re: Commercial 3D printers emit traces of toxic fumes, study finds (2019)

#61

Post by Brian_K_White »

hooverd wrote: post #13

The article is talking about FDM with PLA and ABS, but what a "commercial 3D printer" is basically meaningless. A ShapeWay's fancy MJF machines? A FormLab 2? Your Ender 3?

I think commercial in this case just means a product that a consumer can buy as an end user product, vs self made.

The point of the distinction being that most such products, like your phone or electric toothbrush, have a lot of safety regulations almost like the food supply, where the entire store, every store, is a safe space where if you can even buy it, then it's safe for you to use at least as directed. I was going to say "you can't drink antifreeze" as part of the "as directed" part, but they're even removing the classic ethylene glycol from that now.

So they are attempting to suggest that consumer 3d printers are posing a safety danger on the general population by being equally available and equally marketed as any other consumer appliance like coffee makers.

It's probably not completely wrong to say that people should not be led to believe that an fdm printer is as harmless as a coffee maker.

They should still be acvailable, just treated more as tools with a few different safety and toxicity considerations. Like how anyone can still buy a gas weed trimmer (until they ban them) but it's clear that it is not to be used indoors because it generates toxic exhaust, nor used by small kids or unsupervised because of the business end, the gas, etc.

Re: Commercial 3D printers emit traces of toxic fumes, study finds (2019)

#62

Post by LarryMullins »

yreg wrote: post #6
seltzered_ wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just melting chemicals but also forms of laser cutting materials too. E.g. reminded of the death of this couple from carbon monoxide (possibly but not concluded to be by a laser cutter setup) - https://www.berkeleyside.org/2017/04/20/still-mystery-inspec... , https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13507734

LASER cutting is also melting (and evaporating) chemicals.

I used to regularly visit a hacker space that was constantly on the verge of getting evicted because their laser cutter fumes (vented out of the building, through numerous filters) were pissing off the whole neighborhood. Laser cutting is no joke. Eventually they changed their policy to only laser cut wood. Wood smoke is still carcinogenic, but I guess the smell of wood smoke is more familiar to people so it gets fewer complaints.

Re: Commercial 3D printers emit traces of toxic fumes, study finds (2019)

#63

Post by Scene_Cast2 »

semi-extrinsic wrote: post #45
esskay wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There does seem to have been a slight shift in mentality over the last couple of years in the 3d printing community, with groups of users obsessing over statistics from air quality and particle sensors. One thing that is a bit concerning is people building their own air filters and releasing them to the public as a 'solution' to 3d printer filtration, with the creator having no real experience or knowledge in the are…

I don't understand why anyone would DIY an air filter, when you can get e.g. a pair of 3M 6092x cartridges for $20.

As comfortable as 3M half-face respirators are, having people in the room wear a mask until vapors subside is a hassle - especially if the room is in the basement or a northern climate where opening a window isn't possible or desirable.

Re: Commercial 3D printers emit traces of toxic fumes, study finds (2019)

#64

Post by LarryMullins »

Throwaway045814 wrote: post #48
eli wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Laser cutting brownies is probably fine. That said, there's plenty of evidence that fumes from cooking can negatively affect indoor air quality. You should always open a window when you cook.

You mean the recently highlighted issue of gas stoves, or do you mean something that affects electrical stoves as well?

In kitchens where lots of frying is done, the whole place eventually gets coated in a thin layer of oil, even the parts no person could normally reach. Aerosolized or vaporized cooking oil, condensing on everything. I doubt working in a kitchen like that is good for your lungs in the long term.

Re: Commercial 3D printers emit traces of toxic fumes, study finds (2019)

#65

Post by LarryMullins »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #46
calibas wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The human nose is an extremely sensitive chemical detector, and should not be dismissed. It's effective down to a fraction of parts per trillion for certain chemicals. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odor_detection_threshold#Odor_...

But for others, like carbon monoxide, it is useless and leaves you to die.

You can't count on your nose to warn you, but when your nose does warn you it pays to heed that warning. If your nose is screaming at you to GTFO, listen to it.

You listen to your other senses, right? When you touch something hot, you listen to your sense of touch telling you that you're about to get burned. That doesn't mean your sense of touch can warn you of all hazards, but you certainly shouldn't ignore it when it does.

Re: Commercial 3D printers emit traces of toxic fumes, study finds (2019)

#66

Post by 71a54xd »

gamedna wrote: post #55
71a54xd wrote: post #30

I keep my 3d printer in a second bathroom with a strong exhaust fan. When I use it I just close the door and let it do it's thing.

correction: ... and do my thing.

haha I love that HN is down voting this

Re: Commercial 3D printers emit traces of toxic fumes, study finds (2019)

#68

Post by devmor »

seltzered_ wrote: post #5
elischleifer wrote: post #2

Probably anything intentionally melting chemicals should come with built-in fume capture.

Not just melting chemicals but also forms of laser cutting materials too. E.g. reminded of the death of this couple from carbon monoxide (possibly but not concluded to be by a laser cutter setup) - https://www.berkeleyside.org/2017/04/20/still-mystery-inspec... , https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13507734

Melting, laser cutting, heating, stressing, grinding, any time you are releasing any kind of particulate into the air, you should be taking precautions not to let it end up in anyone's lungs.

Even the stuff that doesn't cause cancer can still cause you physical harm. It takes very little effort to just be safe.

Re: Commercial 3D printers emit traces of toxic fumes, study finds (2019)

#69

Post by fnordpiglet »

Actual study:

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.est.9b04168

It basically says PLA emits lactic acid and ABS a bunch of nastiness. There wasn’t much to indicate PLA emissions were particularly dangerous. That said, I’d not suggest locking yourself in a closet with your 3D printer. But given abs is full of nastiness and everything I’ve ever read about printing with it says it’s toxic and to ventilate, this article from 3 years ago doesn’t seem that interesting.

Re: Commercial 3D printers emit traces of toxic fumes, study finds (2019)

#70

Post by jrockway »

Symbiote wrote: post #35
RugnirViking wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Use a straight up gas mask, lab goggles, and nitrile gloves with mine at a minimum. It's nasty stuff

When deciding whether to buy a resin printer, I found posts from teenagers, students etc who'd set up resin printers in bedrooms etc. "Oh, the fumes are no problem, I buy low-odour resin." Great, we'll see what happens when they spill some on the carpet. I'm sticking with FDM, and I take some measures to increase ventilation when I'm using that.

Resin printing is neat, but it's strictly in the "do you have a garage?" category for me. I do not have a garage, so I do not have a resin printer.
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