Unapproved books now a felony in Manatee County schools • Hacker News Board

Re: Unapproved books now a felony in Manatee County schools

#221

Post by jimbob45 » Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 4:36 PM UTC

berkle4455 wrote: post #41

mabbo wrote: post #3

Hey America, is everything okay down there? Y'all have some truly dystopian stuff going on there. Felony prosecution for showing kids books that the Governor didn't approve of? Yikes.

It’s Florida. And, no, things aren’t okay.

Florida gets a bad rap. Their Sunshine Law[0] has them voluntarily offering their dirty laundry to the public to keep themselves accountable. Only an ignorant or a jealous fool would call that a bad thing. You have to truly be living in 1984 to want your government to hide more things from you.

[0]https://floridadep.gov/sites/default/files/FloridaSunshinePu...

Re: Unapproved books now a felony in Manatee County schools

#222

Post by kelseyfrog » Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 4:37 PM UTC

mcv wrote: post #159

toomuchtodo wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also drives families with kids out of Florida to more sane educational operating environments. Florida already has the worst teacher shortage in the nation: https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2023/01/22/our-child...

So they already have the worst teacher shortage, and they're determined to make it even worse by making it a crime to encourage children to read. This is completely insane. How can this be even remotely constitutional? Please tell me at least the current Florida legislature is deeply unpopular because of their commitment to censorship and opposition to education.

It depends on what you think constitutional means. If you think it refers to some spirit independent of a particular time and place, then sorry, no. If it is whatever the right people say it is, then yes.

Re: Unapproved books now a felony in Manatee County schools

#223

Post by mellavora » Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 4:37 PM UTC

kleton wrote: post #124

zenkat wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I disagree with the assertion that destroying public education is a right-wing goal. While there may be some individuals or groups with that belief, it is not a universally held position among those who identify as right-wing. Additionally, making it a crime to teach is not a tactic that is being used by any mainstream political group or party. Education is an important issue that affects the future of society and sh…

So perhaps you should review what many leading right-wing politicians have been saying for years about teachers, see i.e.

Attacks on teachers never ‘as bad as right now’: union chief (2022) https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/3621251-attacks...

Right-Wing Money Is Greasing the Anti-Teachers Union Skids (2018) \https://www.tucsonweekly.com/TheRange/archives/2018/07/13/ri...

The Right-Wing Assault on Teachers’ Unions https://www.edweek.org/teaching-learning/opinion-the-right-w...

or recall Scott Walker and what he did in Wisconsin.

Or even look at the article currently under discussion, which makes it a FELONY for a teacher to have the "wrong" books in the classroom. How can you say that is not an attack on teachers?

I challenge you to contact any person who has worked in public education for more than 5 years and get their view on the right wing. I think you'll find that there is an organized and well funded attack on US public education, which is driven by the right wing.

Re: Unapproved books now a felony in Manatee County schools

#224

Post by danaris » Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 4:37 PM UTC

afavour wrote: post #138

lowken wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I’m sorry but I question the sanity of anyone that thinks these are actually legitimate questions. How many Kindergarten libraries do you think have pornography in them? Seriously. What has given you the impression that this is happening? What proof have you been offered? This is very obviously an attempt to control what kids are allowed to learn from the top down using “pornography” as an excuse.

There is a strong movement afoot to define any material teaching about

1) consent (whether it mentions sex or not)

2) the child's own body (in ways designed to help them recognize and avoid things like sexual abuse)

3) queer issues of any kind, but especially trans issues

as pornographic, regardless of the actual content, so that they can ban it and claim they're saving the poor children from horrible, horrible sexual material.

This is not a new movement; conservatives have been trying to ban queer people from any kind of public visibility for decades by claiming that their very existence is sexual, ignoring the fact that heterosexual romance and sex is being shoved into our faces constantly, often in far more blatant ways, and often in media explicitly aimed at children. They're merely redoubling their efforts now that it's becoming clear that society at large is starting to genuinely accept trans people, which they cannot abide.

Re: Unapproved books now a felony in Manatee County schools

#225

Post by smt88 » Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 4:37 PM UTC

gregwebs wrote: post #204

The last paragraph of this article explains that the rest of the article is kind of FUD or at least something to try to understand about why one county is taking a different interpretation than the rest. > This interpretation of the law runs directly counter to the arguments the DeSantis administration is making in court. In federal court filings, lawyers representing DeSantis insist that the Parental Rights in Educa…

Absolutely not FUD.

DeSantis is trying to enforce an unconstitutional, fascist law without a court ruling it as such.

It's not surprising that he is saying one thing in court and then doing another outside of it.

Re: Unapproved books now a felony in Manatee County schools

#226

Post by dylan604 » Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 4:38 PM UTC

NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #154

Pulcinella wrote: post #10

In Florida, school librarians are called "media specialists" and hold media specialist certificates. A rule passed by the Florida Department of Education last week states that a "library media center" includes any books made available to students, including in classrooms. This means that classroom libraries that are curated by teachers, not librarians, are now illegal. Prepare for “route around the damage” moment whe…

A quick search suggests that other third-degree felonies in Florida are things like: felony battery, aggravated assault, carrying a concealed firearm without a license and resisting a law enforcement officer with violence. All rather mind-blowing to be honest.

with all of the other inane laws that have come before this, this is still mind-blowing? with all of the rhetoric from the governor on all of the other topics, this is still mind-blowing? yes, it's absolutely an abhorrent thing to do and is just dumb at all levels, but is it mind-blowing or "of course they did this" kind of stupid?

Re: Unapproved books now a felony in Manatee County schools

#227

Post by Miner49er » Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 4:38 PM UTC

Pulcinella wrote: post #10

In Florida, school librarians are called "media specialists" and hold media specialist certificates. A rule passed by the Florida Department of Education last week states that a "library media center" includes any books made available to students, including in classrooms. This means that classroom libraries that are curated by teachers, not librarians, are now illegal. Prepare for “route around the damage” moment whe…

The other way to route around the damage is for teachers to just ban all books in their classrooms. That avoids all legal risk as well, and seems to be the route that will be taken in the short term, at least.

Re: Unapproved books now a felony in Manatee County schools

#228

Post by jackson1442 » Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 4:38 PM UTC

adamsmith143 wrote: post #201

jackson1442 wrote: post #2

One of the requirements for book approval: > Appropriate for the grade level and age group for which the materials are used or made available If I was in grade school when this happened, this would have hampered my ability to learn. I was generally reading above the standard level and loved reading in class. Reading this post just makes me sad. Kids aren't getting the same opportunities I got to nurture my curiosity.

You probably got books from the library then or brought them from home. Which isn't affected by this law from what I can tell. I think I read a book from a "classroom library" like once during school while I was loaning books from our actual library non-stop. Wouldn't have affected me at all.

The content requirement also applies to the school library, but content review for that will likely be prioritized above classroom libraries.

As mentioned in a sibling thread, some teachers have blocked students from bringing in their own books out of fear of liability.

Re: Unapproved books now a felony in Manatee County schools

#229

Post by kwhitefoot » Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 4:38 PM UTC

jf wrote: post #7

Banning media is a great way to pique the interest of the naturally rebellious youth.

Perhaps we should all start sending books to Florida! Or perhaps upload pirate epub copies somewhere so that the little darlings can read them on their phones.

Re: Unapproved books now a felony in Manatee County schools

#230

Post by seanw444 » Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 4:38 PM UTC

gadflyinyoureye wrote: post #184

srndsnd wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno. As the country bifurcates more and more, I'm thinking long and hard about if I want to travel to certain states. I'd rather as little of my money as possible be spent there.

I know how you feel. I refuse to go to Virginia since they don't accept my CCW permit from Florida.

I don't step in non-constitutional-carry states. The good thing is that, with the exception of basically Florida, there are no states I care to visit that don't already have it. The problem is traveling to those states. I'm temporarily a felon to get there, even though it is my right to keep and bear that handgun nationally. Beats me.

I will not contribute my money to a government that does not allow me my rights, and will also not disarm myself to make myself more of a juicy target just to temporarily sight-see. Not worth it. Plenty of pretty sights to see in the states that aren't ridiculous.