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Loneliness is a measure of self-understanding

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Re: Loneliness is a measure of self-understanding

#141

Post by jelliclesfarm »

throwaway11823 wrote: post #140
jelliclesfarm wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, if it came across as criticism. I was trying to put myself in your shoes. Edited to add after reading the comment again: Having said that, by the way you have reacted to my comment..I think it would serve you well to be more introspective of your thought process. Why are you so sensitive to criticism and if you expect others to toe the lines of the boundaries that aren’t clearly defined, you shouldn’t have sha…

I never said my SO was a woman, I never said my SO and I were having problems, I never asked for advice; I made a counterargument to the argument in the article, sharing a single moment of my life, and talking equally about my SO as much as my friends and family. I asked that you not try to read between the lines and offer me the criticism of that person you imagine me to be - I'm not that person. You chose to double…

This is how the thread made me feel: 1. You are an unreliable narrator. (“My SO isn’t a woman”. Somehow I knew you’d make this statement. You are still vague.) 2. You place the burden of understanding elsewhere without taking responsibility for unclear communication. 3. There is a lot of shuffling around framing of your statement. 4. The responsibility of clear communication lies with you. It is not our burden to carry. 5. I do not know you. It’s a big ask to trust your word when everything you have communicated says the opposite. 6. This is a manipulative tactic that is very subtle but not uncommon.

I want to say that I did feel attacked but because I chose not to get triggered by it, I was able to make a few more observations. But I respect your request and will not further this discussion as you will likely construe it as criticism and uncalled for..

There is nothing further to discuss. Thanks for engaging thus far. It gave me something to ponder over.

Re: Loneliness is a measure of self-understanding

#142

Post by fellowniusmonk »

Beaver117 wrote: post #70
fellowniusmonk wrote: post #41

This article touches on something interesting but is woefully inaccurate to the point of causing harm. It devolves into almost an entreaty to pull yourself up by your bootstraps and take responsibility for not being understood. Being understood is a complete joke, it's simply not important and for many of us on extreme ends of the bell curve is effectively impossible. I was born with multiple heart defects, I was con…

Of course I can't say I understand you, but I've had to live with my share of secrets which others can't understand. I was also born with a genetic disorder, and been going to doctors constantly since birth. Not a heart condition but had likely organ and brain damage so they were always checking my development as if they knew I would never amount to anything. Always on expensive medications and scared of losing insur…

I embraced that life is absurd and a mystery and that many people are kind and good hearted. Knowing they exist makes me less lonely, it doesn't matter if they can understand me, it only matters that they don't "think" that they understand me. I found solace in sonder I guess.

That's enough, the world and my life isn't meant to be understood or make sense, as far as I can tell my life is not meant for "anything" by "anyone"... though maybe I'll find out differently one day.

I don't know if that is part of ego death or what, but I am glad to be here, I'm glad and lucky I didn't die at 3, I do seek out people who are good hearted but weird, iconoclasts, unfiltered... in one instance I became a close friend to someone who has tourette's and I always know what's on their mind.

I don't know, I guess I ended up a misfit toy that really enjoys other misfit toys.

Re: Loneliness is a measure of self-understanding

#144

Post by stasbar »

comment_ran wrote: post #50

Length is a measure of distance. You need a ruler to measure the distance. If "Loneliness is a measure of self-understanding", how can you measure it?

Psychometric tests or neuroscience may be the "thermometer" of both loneliness and self understanding, at least approximate one.

Re: Loneliness is a measure of self-understanding

#145

Post by stasbar »

IceDane wrote: post #112

Wow! You just solved loneliness using 5 lines of high school level logic! Give this man a nobel prize. This is embarrassingly over-simplified. Maybe don't immediately turn every half-baked shower thought into a blog post and post it online.

Is high school logic less sound, valuable, legit?

Also, I would not be surprised if Nobel price ideas were invented under the shower. Actually it's the most likely that synthesis happens during the diffused mode of thinking, which happens under the relaxation like shower.

I don't claim my idea is worth Nobel price. I just explained in succinct (possibly over-simplified) way my experience of feeling misunderstood for most of my life and the solution that finally helped me.

I shared it to validate whether it's a solution to all causes of loneliness or just mine.

Re: Loneliness is a measure of self-understanding

#146

Post by throwaway11823 »

jelliclesfarm wrote: post #141
throwaway11823 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never said my SO was a woman, I never said my SO and I were having problems, I never asked for advice; I made a counterargument to the argument in the article, sharing a single moment of my life, and talking equally about my SO as much as my friends and family. I asked that you not try to read between the lines and offer me the criticism of that person you imagine me to be - I'm not that person. You chose to double…

This is how the thread made me feel: 1. You are an unreliable narrator. (“My SO isn’t a woman”. Somehow I knew you’d make this statement. You are still vague.) 2. You place the burden of understanding elsewhere without taking responsibility for unclear communication. 3. There is a lot of shuffling around framing of your statement. 4. The responsibility of clear communication lies with you. It is not our burden to car…

[flagged]

Re: Loneliness is a measure of self-understanding

#147

Post by prometheus76 »

jongjong wrote: post #137
prometheus76 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BTW it's "mimetic" as in "mime" or "copy" as opposed to "memes".

Makes sense. Thanks for pointing this out. On a tangent, I can see a connection between the concepts 'meme' and 'mime'. I suspect they both involve mirror neurons. Viral memes spread by being relatable.

The phrase comes from the work of Rene Girard. Look up "mimetic theory" or "mimetic desire" if you want to learn more about the concept.

Re: Loneliness is a measure of self-understanding

#148

Post by stasbar »

standardUser wrote: post #13

I really like the thrust of this argument (loneliness is about not being understood) but I think the solution is off the mark... > So it’s your task to make others understand you There is another task that is just as important. You need to find people who are capable of understanding you . It may sound like a cart/horse issue where you need to understand enough about yourself to find people who are receptive. That my…

I agree with most of what you said; however, I believe that once you really understand yourself you also:

1. Understand others, therefore can describe them in a way suited to their way of thinking. This is probably controversial assumption but I believe people are unconstrained, everyone can understand everything, it may just require more time. If you believe people are constrained, or just don't want to spend time on them—find people who are capable of understanding you right away. By being honest about yourself you will attract like-minded people. The process of "explaining yourself" obligates you to approach new people (not only your current closest) and explain them your existence. If you feel understood only by your closest friends, then you are not good at expressing yourself.

2. become less self-concerned. You no longer seek validation and significance—you are fine with being normal. You no longer need someone who will make you less lonely, someone who will fix your flaws. You no longer focus on yourself (you know this guy good enough), rather, you pay all the attention to others, you become emphatic, which connects with others, and thus you become less lonely.

3. You can honesty communicate your needs, fears, desires, emotions. They are part of you, and hence it's your responsibility to explain them to others. Don't expect people to read your mind. Don't run away using abstractions, give concrete examples. If you believe in small lies for a greater good, then you are not communicating yourself. If you consider breaking up with your SO, talk about it with him/her, not your friends. If your boss annoys you, tell him which actions annoys you. It requires a lot of courage therefore little people do so, but not doing it results in loneliness. You have a choice.

Re: Loneliness is a measure of self-understanding

#149

Post by stasbar »

RHSman2 wrote: post #99
standardUser wrote: post #13

I really like the thrust of this argument (loneliness is about not being understood) but I think the solution is off the mark... > So it’s your task to make others understand you There is another task that is just as important. You need to find people who are capable of understanding you . It may sound like a cart/horse issue where you need to understand enough about yourself to find people who are receptive. That my…

When you connect with another human who sees you, life becomes full of color. I think a lot of our societal issues stem from not being able to connect authentically.

Exactly!

Re: Loneliness is a measure of self-understanding

#150

Post by stasbar »

stonekyx wrote: post #59

> the lack of understanding you by other people is caused by the lack of skills to explain yourself to others This is the point where the argument went off, I believe. People only listen to what they want to listen, and generally they care less, or won’t bother to care at all, if the topic is not somehow related with themselves. So no, the lack of understanding you by other people is usually not caused by the lack of…

Thank you for your comment. My goal was to be as succinct as possible and cover most of the cases of “casual” feeling of loneliness.

Although I still believe that self-understanding and communication are fundaments, other people are also important factor in this equation.

I wrote complementary points in this comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34497083

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