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What happened with the substation attack in North Carolina?

practical.engineering

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Re: What happened with the substation attack in North Carolina?

#231

Post by ilyt »

wereallterrrist wrote: post #215
ilyt wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but I'm quite sure that there MIGHT be a bit of a infosec/skill gap between the chuds posting on /b/ and the folks actually rolling out with assault rifles, knowledge, and intent to knock (a) power substation(s) offline. Why? Point a gun at big obvious target doesn't take intelligence and only minimum skill. They don't need to have any knowledge, just shoot the big squarey boxes till the lights go down. Or hell [1]…

Are you uninformed or being disingenuous on purpose regarding these attacks and the nature of them?

You're the one throwing unsubstantiated consipracy theories, not me

Re: What happened with the substation attack in North Carolina?

#232

Post by lelanthran »

mrtesthah wrote: post #229
lelanthran wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I mean sure, as long as you’re a white christian man, I'm not. Well, at least you got one out of three. People like you are annoying people like me, especially when you pretend that you are talking on behalf of me.

Because you're choosing to ignore the growing threat of white supremacist violence to minorities all over the country, I couldn't see any other reason you'd have to do that. There have been many mass shootings targeted at them already. But I'm not talking on behalf of you, I'm talking on behalf of myself , because I am a member of one of these many groups which are targeted.

> Because you're choosing to ignore the growing threat of white supremacist violence to minorities all over the country,

This may be hard for you to understand, but what you fear is a marginal threat, at best.

> There have been many mass shootings targeted at them already.

How many is "many"? If you're going to argue that even 1 is 1 too many, then we may as well give up on this argument - you're never going to get down to a zero level of any demographic or group.

OTOH, the main causes of violence against minorities still appears to be purely crime-driven. If you were honest with yourself, you'd make up a top-10 list of the causes of deaths/injury of minorities and realise that "Killedx by a white supremecist" isn't even in the list.

> But I'm not talking on behalf of you, I'm talking on behalf of myself, because I am a member of one of these many groups which are targeted.

But you didn't talk about yourself, did you? No, you referred to entire groups on the assumption that they agree with your assessment of the risk to themselves.

Now you know that the groups you mentioned are not unanimously in agreement with you.

Re: What happened with the substation attack in North Carolina?

#233

Post by mrtesthah »

lelanthran wrote: post #232
mrtesthah wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because you're choosing to ignore the growing threat of white supremacist violence to minorities all over the country, I couldn't see any other reason you'd have to do that. There have been many mass shootings targeted at them already. But I'm not talking on behalf of you, I'm talking on behalf of myself , because I am a member of one of these many groups which are targeted.

> Because you're choosing to ignore the growing threat of white supremacist violence to minorities all over the country, This may be hard for you to understand, but what you fear is a marginal threat, at best. > There have been many mass shootings targeted at them already. How many is "many"? If you're going to argue that even 1 is 1 too many, then we may as well give up on this argument - you're never going to get d…

I said white supremacist violence, but you took that to mean terrorist killings, which is a small subset of that violence.

They much more frequently intimidate, threaten, harass, and abuse those minoritized groups than outright murder them. Maybe that doesn't bother you, either. But making factual statements doesn't require anyone to agree with me. Those violent acts are occurring, nonetheless.

The reason it is important to associate these minoritized groups is that they are all being underserved by state and federal law enforcement agencies who permit such terroristic groups to organize with impunity. It is a steadily rising problem, and the longer it's ignored the worse it will get.

Re: What happened with the substation attack in North Carolina?

#234

Post by lelanthran »

mrtesthah wrote: post #233
lelanthran wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because you're choosing to ignore the growing threat of white supremacist violence to minorities all over the country, This may be hard for you to understand, but what you fear is a marginal threat, at best. > There have been many mass shootings targeted at them already. How many is "many"? If you're going to argue that even 1 is 1 too many, then we may as well give up on this argument - you're never going to get d…

I said white supremacist violence, but you took that to mean terrorist killings, which is a small subset of that violence. They much more frequently intimidate, threaten, harass, and abuse those minoritized groups than outright murder them. Maybe that doesn't bother you, either. But making factual statements doesn't require anyone to agree with me. Those violent acts are occurring, nonetheless. The reason it is impor…

> I said white supremacist violence, but you took that to mean terrorist killings, which is a small subset of that violence.

No, I specified "causes of deaths/injury of minorities"

> But making factual statements doesn't require anyone to agree with me.

Neither does making non-factual statements. What's your point?

(Here's a factual statement for you - the threat from white supremacists against minorities is so low it's barely a rounding error. You should post numbers displaying that this fact is wrong.)

> It is a steadily rising problem, and the longer it's ignored the worse it will get.

Look, maybe it is steadily rising, but you are unable to provide percentages here.

To us minorities, us experiencing deaths/injury from white supremacists are not even a rounding error.

Everyone has a line in the sand where something goes from "that's not a problem" to "we need to work on that".

You can't call people ignorant because their personal line in the sand is (for example) "needs to be more than 0.01% of threats against me".

Okay, you can (and have) called people ignorant for dismissing threats that are this low-level, but you can't then expect people to not dismiss you as a crackpot.

Re: What happened with the substation attack in North Carolina?

#235

Post by sandos »

kavefish wrote: post #84

The video inspired me to explore the open source grid map at atlas.eia.gov, but it sure looks like the online map was locked down. Despite the sidebar saying the map is visible to the public, the maps never load and I'm seeing access denied errors for map resources in the console. There could be multiple explanations for the map to stop loading, but the error messages sure give me the impression that it was to restri…

You could also try openinframap.org or www.flosm.de/en/powergrid.html, both based on openstreetmap data.

Re: What happened with the substation attack in North Carolina?

#236

Post by yucky »

mrtesthah wrote: post #226
yucky wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought I already did. If white supremacists are so anti-government then it doesn't make sense to pretend the government is run by white supremacists. It turns out that the people who make those sorts of claims are really just anti-white.

Who is pretending that "the government is run by white supremacists"? If you're referring to my statement, I only said that many law enforcement agencies contain white supremacists, which includes anyone with a white supremacist viewpoint . They don't even need to identify as one openly or even in action. How many white supremacists are and are not anti-government is immaterial to the point. The way you're using the…

  > Do you think it is somehow "anti-white" to point out ways in which white supremacy harms and oppresses non-white people when it is used at the level of state and federal governments?
It can be. Take your example for instance, where you said:

  > "As for whether US itself is a white supremacist state, on one hand you could say that it has allocated a massive amount of resources in systematically rounding up black men (1 in 3 will be arrested in their lifetimes) without addressing the factors used to justify that, and many states systematically disenfranchise their vote."
You may not realize it, but this statement immediately dismisses the millions of non-black victims of the same thing. By making it all about one race, you have essentially set up a white (bad) vs black (good) dynamic where it doesn't actually exist. Instead of looking at fundamental issues affecting people regardless of race - namely, an authoritarian government that is primarily used by the privileged class against the unprivileged. For example: whereas Sasha & Malia Obama will never face the brunt of an authoritarian government, white Appalachian families know it all too well.

You saw the same thing with groups like BLM. If you never looked at the data you would assume this is an issue that only or primarily affects black people. And yet, the majority of people killed by cops are white males. And although per capita black males are more likely to suffer that fate, white males are also over-represented as victims of police violence based on their demographic cohort. (black, Hispanic and white males are over-represented; Asian males and females of all races including black, are under-represented.

Using the police violence issue, the largest over-represented demographic cohort is actually males which make up 95% of the victims. And yet it's not presented as a male problem. It's presented as a black problem despite the data that shows black females are far less likely to be hurt or killed in police interactions than white males are.

This happens a lot when trying to take a complex issue and assume it's based on race.

Re: What happened with the substation attack in North Carolina?

#237

Post by mrtesthah »

lelanthran wrote: post #234
mrtesthah wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I said white supremacist violence, but you took that to mean terrorist killings, which is a small subset of that violence. They much more frequently intimidate, threaten, harass, and abuse those minoritized groups than outright murder them. Maybe that doesn't bother you, either. But making factual statements doesn't require anyone to agree with me. Those violent acts are occurring, nonetheless. The reason it is impor…

> I said white supremacist violence, but you took that to mean terrorist killings, which is a small subset of that violence. No, I specified "causes of deaths/injury of minorities" > But making factual statements doesn't require anyone to agree with me. Neither does making non-factual statements. What's your point? (Here's a factual statement for you - the threat from white supremacists against minorities is so low i…

I don't see where I used the word "ignorant".

Yes, obviously by statistical cause of death, terrorism will always be a rounding error. However, the goal of terror is always psychological -- to create a culture of fear in which people are afraid to participate in society.

That, in combination with law enforcement insufficiently targeting white supremacist organizing, is primarily an issue of social and racial justice. Simply, it's unfair to expect demographic groups which collectively comprise half of the country to put up with this mess.

Re: What happened with the substation attack in North Carolina?

#238

Post by mistermann »

mistermann wrote: post #72
redeux wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> But we know that most terror attacks in the U.S. since 9/11 have been domestic terror attacks, and we know that 2/3 of attacks come from far-right extremists [1]. Saying something is true does not make it true, but it does make it seem true . This is not a trivial fact.

It is also not a popular fact.

Re: What happened with the substation attack in North Carolina?

#239

Post by mistermann »

acdha wrote: post #109
mistermann wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the goal were to send a message, well, this just isn't going to cut it. The US military will crush you regardless of the status of a power substation in North Carolina. Like they crushed Iraq for 9/11? Finding and crushing someone is easy, finding an actually guilty party that cannot be found is not so easy. Who knows what this is, but some people can see the strategic significance of it.

Like crushing the Taliban for 9/11. The Iraq invasion wasn’t a question of not knowing, it was an intentional deception to start the war they were already planning. U.S. and allied intelligence agencies had plenty of people who knew better and even the Bush administration knew the link was spotty enough that they didn’t explicitly make it, instead relying on claims about WMD and human rights which weren’t as easily d…

> The Iraq invasion wasn’t a question of not knowing

The United States government exists within a democracy, and the general public certainly doesn't know what's going on, and much of what they think they know is incorrect.

Re: What happened with the substation attack in North Carolina?

#240

Post by mistermann »

ivraatiems wrote: post #163
mistermann wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the goal were to send a message, well, this just isn't going to cut it. The US military will crush you regardless of the status of a power substation in North Carolina. Like they crushed Iraq for 9/11? Finding and crushing someone is easy, finding an actually guilty party that cannot be found is not so easy. Who knows what this is, but some people can see the strategic significance of it.

How are al Qaeda and ISIS doing today? Also, like I said before... ideologues take responsibility.

I have no idea, but do you believe that this is a valid counterpoint to my proposition?

A similar question is: how are all the unjustly killed people (and their surviving family and friends) doing? And, how will Americans that may suffer blowback from this be doing if that should come to visit our shores (say, maybe by power stations being taken out with a simple rifle)?

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