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AI is in danger of being swallowed up by copyright law

heathermeeker.com

641–650 of 705 posts

Re: AI is in danger of being swallowed up by copyright law

#641
post #505

If the AI wants to be exempt from being punished for training on copyrighted works the bare minimum standard is that it doesn’t accidentally copy and reproduce large portions of that work. There are quite a few examples of Stable Diffusion doing this so I think even that low bar is met. I think anyone sane doesn’t want to create AI immunity to copyright damages even when the network is “accidentally” producing copyri…

You can use a spoon to kill someone if you're motivated enough, but that doesn't make a spoon a killing weapon.

Just because AI art models can reproduce copyright (if you try hard enough), doesn't mean that it's a copyright stealing machine.

Re: AI is in danger of being swallowed up by copyright law

#642
post #226

A half-serious thought I had is to allow AI to be trained on copyrighted materials but require all output to be public domain. It doesn’t solve attribution, and you could get a sufficiently advanced ai to “launder” copyright but at least it would prevent those corporations from leveraging public works into copyrighted projects

That's genuinely the best solution I've heard for this issue so far.

It'd stop buisnesses from replacing artists with models wholesale, but it would allow people to keep using them, and allow the companies making the models to make money selling access to the models.

Re: AI is in danger of being swallowed up by copyright law

#643
post #640
post #595

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Derivative works are their own things (when sufficiently derivative). And AIs are not humans - using an algorithm does not automatically remove the copyright. See also "I uploaded a movie to youtube but it's upside down, why did it get taken down".

But that's because the movie is still recognisable. Using an algorithm doesn't automatically remove copyright, but if the algorithm transforms the data to a point where it can't be recognised as the original work, then it isn't breaking copyright.

Those may be fine, yes.

But the AI as a whole is capable of reproducing the original in a recognizable form, and it does so on demand quite easily, because it was trained on them - how is it different than selling a zip file containing millions of copyrighted works, and also a bunch of new stuff?

Re: AI is in danger of being swallowed up by copyright law

#644
> The Co-Pilot suit is ostensibly being brought in the name of all open source programmers. Yes, that’s right, people crusading in the name of open source–a movement intended to promote freedom to use source code–are now claiming that a neural network, designed to save programmers the onus of re-inventing the wheel when they need code to perform programming tasks, is de facto unlawful. The open source movement is wonderful in many ways, but its tendency to engage in legal maximalism to “protect” open source is sometimes disappointing.

What a disingenuous framing of the open-source software movement.

When I license a work I created as GPL or MIT or whatever, I do so because I imagine that some user or some company would use the software to build something based on my software and contribute their changes back to the community so that we can all benefit. This is standing on the shoulders of giants. Microsoft "using" my source code to build a for-profit programming-as-a-service bot was not what I had in mind. At the very least, the complaint that the model doesn't give credit to its sources is correct. We might need new licenses so people who write open source code can opt out of this type of usage.

> The Stable Diffusion suit alleges copyright infringement, stating that, “The resulting image is necessarily a derivative work, because it is generated exclusively from a combination of the conditioning data and the latent images, all of which are copies of copyrighted images. It is, in short, a 21st-century collage tool.” That characterization is the essence and conclusion of the lawsuit, and one with which many AI designers would disagree.

AI designers can disagree, but how about they try building an AI model without using someone else's images. The AI model is not even possible without the source images. Show a little gratitude.

If you ask me, AI is not in danger of being swallowed by copyright law—it's in danger of being swallowed up by its own self-entitlements.

Re: AI is in danger of being swallowed up by copyright law

#645
post #643
post #640

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's because the movie is still recognisable. Using an algorithm doesn't automatically remove copyright, but if the algorithm transforms the data to a point where it can't be recognised as the original work, then it isn't breaking copyright.

Those may be fine, yes. But the AI as a whole is capable of reproducing the original in a recognizable form, and it does so on demand quite easily, because it was trained on them - how is it different than selling a zip file containing millions of copyrighted works, and also a bunch of new stuff?

> how is it different than selling a zip file containing millions of copyrighted works

so you're saying that the digits of pi is violating copyright then?

Re: AI is in danger of being swallowed up by copyright law

#646
post #205
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AI is not human. Machine learning isn't the exact same thing as human learning. Treating them as exactly the same is disingenuous.

Also, people occasionally invent new concepts, ai doesn't.

Well ChatGPT at least does all the time, it's just that those concepts are factually incorrect

Re: AI is in danger of being swallowed up by copyright law

#647
post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Somehow it is so 'hard' for many AI companies to ask for permission to use and monetize copyrighted images in the training set these days and instead of asking permission, they attempt to bypass copyright law and give out frequent useless excuses from AI bros like: 'but muh fair use tho' , 'oh well genie's out of the bottle it's too late' , 'oops, cat's out of the bag, but you can opt out now' . Little do so…

Can we maybe drop the whole sneery "AI bro" lingo? HN is not the right place for that.[0] [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

> HN is not the right place for that.

Where in the guidelines does it mention that one cannot say 'tech bro, finance bro, pharma bro, and more recently and most actively the crypto bro'? These have been there for years despite the guidelines existing.

Me saying 'AI bros' is no different. Given it is fine to mention the tech bros, finance bros, crypto bros and the other, then it is also fine to say 'AI bros'.

Re: AI is in danger of being swallowed up by copyright law

#648
post #645
post #643

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those may be fine, yes. But the AI as a whole is capable of reproducing the original in a recognizable form, and it does so on demand quite easily, because it was trained on them - how is it different than selling a zip file containing millions of copyrighted works, and also a bunch of new stuff?

> how is it different than selling a zip file containing millions of copyrighted works so you're saying that the digits of pi is violating copyright then?

I can ask one to produce copyrighted works. The other, not so much. That's a rather weak straw-man.

Re: AI is in danger of being swallowed up by copyright law

#649

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't be so sure of that: in music it's now established that getting too close from the "style" of another musician is a copyright violation: https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/what-s-going-on-another-ma...

and this ruling will prove to be a disaster for music creation as there will be fewer copyright free spaces for music as time goes on. a similar ruling will also be a disaster for software as our tools of expression are very restricted. code is based on boolean algebra and predicate calculus, practice guides like design patterns and books teaching algorithms and data structures. there are lots of ways to write bad co…

To hell with only focusing on code. We should break copyright completely and take back the intellectual landscape.

Re: AI is in danger of being swallowed up by copyright law

#650
post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You don’t need to. It’s implicitly assumed, by virtue of publishing in a public forum, that the author is providing permission for people read their comments and ideas, and remix them as they wish. That permission doesn’t include exact replication, but reading and understanding is assumed, otherwise why did the author publish it? Following this logic, isn't training AI on Github or Deviantart 100% fair game then? It…

Only if you assume that ML models should be treated as though they have the same rights and privileges as humans. Personally I reject that. ML needs to be restricted heavily.

Why does it need to? It's just the agent of a human.

Sounds like an option instead of a need.

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