Don't write on the whiteboard • Hacker News Board

Re: Don't write on the whiteboard

#21

Post by jonshea » Tue, Jan 10, 2012, 6:28 PM UTC

barkingllama wrote: post #11

edw519 wrote: post #9

Sorry OP, I realize that you're just trying to be helpful sharing what's worked for you and I appreciate that, but frankly, I hate posts like this... I think the best preparation for any interview is to simply get good at what you do. All the rest is window dressing that distracts from that goal. Every minute spent practicing interviewing would be better spent building stuff. The natural byproduct of this will be exe…

I'm glad the author mentioned Project Euler... I've never heard of it. Anyone else have experience with these problems? Is it a good way to improve your development skills?

They’re interesting problems, a good way to improve your coding skills, and an amazing way to train for interviews.

Re: Don't write on the whiteboard

#22

Post by MPSimmons » Tue, Jan 10, 2012, 6:30 PM UTC

dfan wrote: post #8

I like seeing interviewees write on a whiteboard because I can see how they're thinking and help them out if I see that they're running into trouble. The point when I give a whiteboard question is to engage interactively with them over the course of ~15 minutes while they solve a problem, not to sit around and be handed a piece of paper at the end. In addition, communicating with peers via whiteboard is a skill that…

> communicating with peers via whiteboard is a skill that is actually handy in day-to-day work life; it's not just some artificial interview skill.

Exactly.

Re: Don't write on the whiteboard

#23

Post by thebandrews » Tue, Jan 10, 2012, 6:32 PM UTC

edw519 wrote: post #9

Sorry OP, I realize that you're just trying to be helpful sharing what's worked for you and I appreciate that, but frankly, I hate posts like this... I think the best preparation for any interview is to simply get good at what you do. All the rest is window dressing that distracts from that goal. Every minute spent practicing interviewing would be better spent building stuff. The natural byproduct of this will be exe…

Sorry Ed, but the best preparation for any interview is not simply getting good at what you do. Being good at what you do is a given. But there is an art to interviewing. I have bombed interviews not because of a lack of ability, but because of my failure to understand interview dynamics.

Re: Don't write on the whiteboard

#24

Post by gldalmaso » Tue, Jan 10, 2012, 6:32 PM UTC

MPSimmons wrote: post #19

[Disagree] Whiteboarding is a very, very valuable skill. The ability to effectively convey your ideas to a group of people, while presenting what amounts to an extemporaneous speech, is a tremendous asset.

>> is a tremendous asset

That is also essential for the applied position?

Re: Don't write on the whiteboard

#25

Post by drumdance » Tue, Jan 10, 2012, 6:34 PM UTC

It seems a lot of what he's talking about is how to deal with anxiety. One way to do this that I've found extremely useful is just to say "I've gotta be honest, I'm feeling a little anxious about this." Not just in interviewing, but in anything in life. If you are willing to be vulnerable, oftentimes that allows you to breathe and the person you share the vulnerability with will come to your rescue (i.e. help to set you at ease).

That said, don't be needy. Just acknowledge your anxiety.

Re: Don't write on the whiteboard

#26

Post by fotbr » Tue, Jan 10, 2012, 6:34 PM UTC

Use python even if you're a c++ systems guy. Or, you know, you could use the language that's most likely to be used in the job you're applying for. If you're a c++ & systems guy, interviewing for a c++ & systems job, c++ is far more likely to be the language of choice for an interview rather than buzzword-language-of-the-week, be it python, java, ruby, haskell, etc. Of course, if you're interviewing at a place you KNOW uses a lot of python, then yes, python would be a good choice.

Besides, most interviews I've had end up being a phone interview for knowledge and skillset, followed by the lunch interview where they're more concerned with finding out how you'll fit in with the existing team.

Re: Don't write on the whiteboard

#27

Post by nik_0_0 » Tue, Jan 10, 2012, 6:38 PM UTC

edw519 wrote: post #9

Sorry OP, I realize that you're just trying to be helpful sharing what's worked for you and I appreciate that, but frankly, I hate posts like this... I think the best preparation for any interview is to simply get good at what you do. All the rest is window dressing that distracts from that goal. Every minute spent practicing interviewing would be better spent building stuff. The natural byproduct of this will be exe…

I'm sorry, but where does the OP reference anything about practising interviewing? In fact, his point seems to focus more on fundamentals than anything.

My takeaway was along the lines of removing the junky presentation layer (whiteboard, etc.), and making sure that you SHOW your fundamentals. Working on Project Euler helps build those fundamentals, writing code comfortably during your interview helps show your fundamentals. In terms of presentation, I didn't feel like he was doing 'window dressing', you definitely want to show your interests, projects and your opinions, these are part of the fundamentals.

No matter what, there is always a base line of presentation that you must meet in an interview to show your fundamentals. I feel like this post is encouraging you to meet that base line, as well as increase your fundamentals.

Re: Don't write on the whiteboard

#28

Post by vl » Tue, Jan 10, 2012, 6:40 PM UTC

gldalmaso wrote: post #17

random42 wrote: post #5

From an interviewer's perspective, the whiteboard gives me a chance to intervene to correct, explain, or provide hints, to the interviewee sooner/at the right time, which is not possible in pen-paper solutions, as I cannot see what the interviewee is doing till she shows me her work, unless I sit at the same side of the table as herself, which is odd for general discussion/talking. My advice to interviewees:- Practic…

There is no practice that simulates anxiety. Anxiety is mostly incompatible with the mental effort one usually applies in coding. As you have put it, the white board is convenient for the interviewer, but that is missing the point of the interview which is to assess the candidate. If you do not find if that difficult, than consider yourself privileged because most people feel differently. Some people cannot speak to…

>There is no practice that simulates anxiety.

Ah, but there is. Once you go through few interviews you get less anxious about the next one. Which means, that if this is a serious problem for you, and you expect some important interview in the future, then you have to go and interview with some other companies before to gain practice, and may be even get some job offer you'll like more than the one you are hoping for.

The whole point of the parent argument is that there are conscious steps you can take to make whiteboard writing not stressful for you. Just practice for ten hours solving problems on it and it will be as natural as writing on paper.

Re: Don't write on the whiteboard

#29

Post by simon_weber » Tue, Jan 10, 2012, 6:41 PM UTC

barkingllama wrote: post #11

edw519 wrote: post #9

Sorry OP, I realize that you're just trying to be helpful sharing what's worked for you and I appreciate that, but frankly, I hate posts like this... I think the best preparation for any interview is to simply get good at what you do. All the rest is window dressing that distracts from that goal. Every minute spent practicing interviewing would be better spent building stuff. The natural byproduct of this will be exe…

I'm glad the author mentioned Project Euler... I've never heard of it. Anyone else have experience with these problems? Is it a good way to improve your development skills?

It's been useful for me. Back in high school, I raced to 50 problems against a friend and learned a lot along the way. Sure, you can get problems elsewhere, but the site has a nice way of continuously upping the complexity to enable self-learning.

Re: Don't write on the whiteboard

#30

Post by Jabbles » Tue, Jan 10, 2012, 6:46 PM UTC

barkingllama wrote: post #11

edw519 wrote: post #9

Sorry OP, I realize that you're just trying to be helpful sharing what's worked for you and I appreciate that, but frankly, I hate posts like this... I think the best preparation for any interview is to simply get good at what you do. All the rest is window dressing that distracts from that goal. Every minute spent practicing interviewing would be better spent building stuff. The natural byproduct of this will be exe…

I'm glad the author mentioned Project Euler... I've never heard of it. Anyone else have experience with these problems? Is it a good way to improve your development skills?

Whenever I recommend Project Euler to people wishing to practise coding I always caveat it by saying "the first 50 problems are useful". After that Project Euler quickly becomes more mathematical, which is great if you wish to practise your maths skills, but may not be what you're looking for. There are exceptions, of course, and some questions may require implementing an important algorithm, but it is difficult to tell at first glance if you will be learning some esoteric area of number theory or something useful to your coding skills.

TopCoder, CodeChef, SPOJ may be what you're looking for.

(Having said that, PE is great fun if you're interested in maths per se).