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The Schwarzschild Defence

nature.com

61–70 of 88 posts

Re: The Schwarzschild Defence

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>for whatever the name is Involuntary time travel VS involuntary murder.

I’m curious how voluntary murder works

I think the legal term voluntary means the assailant willed the action taken. For example, first-degree murder involves forethought and a desire to see the victim dead. Involuntary murder or manslaughter covers accidents without malice.

Re: The Schwarzschild Defence

#62
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I had the introduction of the Murder chapter in a criminal law textbook explained to me, "Death is inevitable. So what we are really talking about here is acceleration." Since the victim's demise here was decelerated , at least from the point of view of everyone in the trial, it can't be murder. Maybe some kind of kidnapping.

Interesting, but I would say its the victim's POV that matters. In a relatively short amount of time from his perspective, he will be torn apart by tidal forces or smashed to bits by debris impacts (he can't steer). Even if that time is long, then he'll die of starvation or dehydration when his supplies run out. His life span, from his perspective, is greatly shortened. I'd rule out kidnapping, because unlawful detai…

[deleted]

Re: The Schwarzschild Defence

#65
post #19

Unlawful restraint of person

My thoughts exactly. But it's a tricky argument as well, because from the point of view of the victim, they're not actually being restrained.

> Once he turned towards the black hole, the controls locked. He can’t turn back anymore. He can only fall.

Re: The Schwarzschild Defence

#66
post #8

Vernor Vinge’s Peace War has balls of stasis, which you can’t see in to tell if the person trapped is alive or dead. So when they figured out how to calculate the lifetime of the bubble, they started putting the guilty party into a bubble timed so they both popped at the same time, which would quickly be followed by your court date if it turned out to be murder.

This sounds really interesting but I have absolutely no idea what you mean. Is the ball the same as the bubble? Why does someone go into it? Who is the “guilty party”?

I recommend just reading the books, they're pretty entertaining (in particular, "Marooned in Realtime"). Has some of the best near-singularity tech I've seen.

Re: The Schwarzschild Defence

#67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> kidnapping someone for (presumably) decades Presume Alice was 'kidnapped' in the ball for XX years. You trial Bob and sentence him for 20 years. 20 years passes, Bob serves his sentence and some time later it occurs what Alice were dead all these years, but Bob not only left the country but served his sentence. Or you sentence Bob for the murder of Alice (even better - execute him), yet Alice is alive, though 20 ye…

This is not how double jeopardy works. By all means, sentence Bob for kidnapping, stick him in jail, have him get out, put a tracker on him and forbid him to leave the country. Then, when Alice pops out and is dead, you just trial him again. It's a different crime! What's more, even if it was the same crime, it'd be material new information! (Quoth the ECHR: "The provisions of the preceding paragraph shall not preven…

Thats great, but the ball pops and its not Alice there.

You jailed Bob for years for the crime he didn't commit. Are you happy?

Re: The Schwarzschild Defence

#68
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds really interesting but I have absolutely no idea what you mean. Is the ball the same as the bubble? Why does someone go into it? Who is the “guilty party”?

I recommend just reading the books, they're pretty entertaining (in particular, "Marooned in Realtime"). Has some of the best near-singularity tech I've seen.

Ray Kurzweil claims to have invented the Singularity. Ray Kurzweil is full of shit. Marooned in Realtime came out in 1986. Ray didn’t start talking about this stuff until the mid 1990’s. If anyone invented it, it was Vinge.

He’s retired now but he was a professor of CS and Math at San Diego State.

Re: The Schwarzschild Defence

#69
post #68
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recommend just reading the books, they're pretty entertaining (in particular, "Marooned in Realtime"). Has some of the best near-singularity tech I've seen.

Ray Kurzweil claims to have invented the Singularity. Ray Kurzweil is full of shit. Marooned in Realtime came out in 1986. Ray didn’t start talking about this stuff until the mid 1990’s. If anyone invented it, it was Vinge. He’s retired now but he was a professor of CS and Math at San Diego State.

Yes, I read real names in high school and am quite full of a) how prescient vinge was and b) how vapid kurzweil is

Re: The Schwarzschild Defence

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think - it was a very very long time ago when I read this - but a bad person can put someone into a stasis field without their consent. The stasis field is the shape of a perfect bubble or ball. IIRC it's also perfectly reflective. Anything inside the stasis field simply doesn't participate in time. Once Bob puts Alice into statis, the stasis ball is impenetrable, so the cops don't know if Alice was alive or dead w…

In Altered Carbon, criminal punishment was making that criminal "sleep" (well, destroying his body, keep his memory/conciousness and resleeve him later) for many decades, waking up at a time where he knows no one, and his knowledge was totally outdated. Putting someone into stasis for long would fit into that idea of punishment, and should be a crime by itself, who cares if your wife is alive or dead if she won't be…

In Marooned in Spacetime we have a set of people who hoped for a better Tomorrow and some rich tourist types who wanted to see what happens in the future come out of stasis to find the Earth deserted. No war, no plague, no apocalypse, just fucked off.

They bubble forward a bit, just in case everyone took a timeout (maybe a toxin was released and there’s a cave full of bubbles waiting for the earth to repair, who knows), but only a few new people show up. Not even enough to repopulate the species. The weird thing is that your status is determined by where you left from not how rich you are. A powerful family skips forward and finds themselves lower status than a group of lower-upper class people with what amounts to top of the line camping gear, which is so much newer than the family’s gear that everything it can do it does better than theirs.

There’s one reclusive person who basically has a space ship. She has been away from humans so long she is barely human (relatable) anymore. She goes out to check other solar systems and finds nothing there either.

The implication is that either we gave up or we ascended somehow, but since they can only travel forward there’s no way to know. They missed the boat.

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