Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

“Copycat” layoffs won’t help tech companies or their employees

gsb.stanford.edu

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 310 posts

Re: “Copycat” layoffs won’t help tech companies or their employees

#21

Post by theGnuMe »

monero-xmr wrote: post #11

If 100k people are let go that’s 100k licenses lost across ~25 different vendors. Layoffs are happening because growth is flatlining or reversing. Tech is very insular as startups are created to solve problems in other tech companies, so if the flywheel of tech companies buying from each other stops, the entire thing can reverse quickly. Also seed rounds were oversubscribed with no diligence, product, and money raise…

>growth is flatlining or reversing.

Do you have a link to a chart or research that shows this?

Re: “Copycat” layoffs won’t help tech companies or their employees

#22

Post by wpietri »

sovnwnt wrote: post #14

> instead of laying off 10% of their workforce, they had everybody take a 10% wage cut except for senior management, which took a larger cut. So instead of giving 100% of the pain to 10% of the people, they give 100% of the people 10% of the pain. This doesn't seem like a good strategy for tech. Cutting everyone's salary will dislodge your top performers who can get a better position even in poor market conditions.

Will it? Most of the top performers I know are not very motivated by money, and instead value doing interesting work with people they like.

Granted, there are a set of people who are very good at job-hopping while executing a performance of being a top performer. But maybe a company will do just fine those people hop away. Maybe it would do better.

Re: “Copycat” layoffs won’t help tech companies or their employees

#23

Post by novok »

darth_avocado wrote: post #13
pookeh wrote: post #3

I always wondered if high profile CEOs and shareholders know something substantial of the upcoming future that us leaf nodes are just clueless about. Is it just copy cat or deep info for privileged clubs?

After having an opportunity to talk 1:1 with two of the most revered personalities/founders/ceos in tech, I’ve come to the conclusion that they are as much full of s** as the rest of us. Probably even more. I know the sample size of 2 is not scientific, but it was enough for me to not have any illusions about the nature of things.

Are they really going to tell you the "privileged" stuff 1:1 if they don't know you well, or the stupid stuff that they tell the public?

At that level, trusting people you don't know is even more risky.

Re: “Copycat” layoffs won’t help tech companies or their employees

#24

Post by filoleg »

kazamaloo wrote: post #15
pookeh wrote: post #3

I always wondered if high profile CEOs and shareholders know something substantial of the upcoming future that us leaf nodes are just clueless about. Is it just copy cat or deep info for privileged clubs?

I still regret not liquidating at the end of 2021 while all CEOs were selling their positions by the 10s of millions.

Were they abnormally liquidating those things at the end of 2021 compared to other years?

Asking because I would expect executives to sell "by the 10s of millions" pretty much every year. Especially since they cannot really sell on a whim (in the US), as executives are legally required to file their stock purchase/sell plans with SEC far ahead of time.

Re: “Copycat” layoffs won’t help tech companies or their employees

#25

Post by jt2190 »

This interview was posted days ago under a different title:

Previous Discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34339698

“ Why are there so many tech layoffs, and why should we be worried? Stanford scholar explains” https://news.stanford.edu/2022/12/05/explains-recent-tech-la...

Re: “Copycat” layoffs won’t help tech companies or their employees

#26

Post by trentnix »

> Behavior spreads through a network as companies almost mindlessly copy what others are doing. When a few firms fire staff, others will probably follow suit.

I generally agree. Copycat layoffs are the result of “we have to do something” thinking, with little thought put into whether or not what’s being done is actually beneficial. Politicians are subject to these types of actions, as well.

If you do the same thing everyone else did and it doesn’t work, you don’t get blamed. You, like everyone else, was a victim of “circumstances”. But if you do something different and it doesn’t work, it’s your ass.

That said, these circumstances could provide cover for companies who need to shed poor performers or performers who’s cost-benefit is no longer positive to the company. But that requires more planning and forethought than I think any of the major players are applying.

Re: “Copycat” layoffs won’t help tech companies or their employees

#27

Post by ericb »

The real winners will be the next tier down in the hiring hierarchy. They are starved for talent. While not as high-paying, or glamorous, they've had jobs sitting open for a while.

When developers are needed for growth initiatives that can drive a stock multiple off more than just current earnings, the cycle will begin again.

Re: “Copycat” layoffs won’t help tech companies or their employees

#28

Post by coredog64 »

sovnwnt wrote: post #14

> instead of laying off 10% of their workforce, they had everybody take a 10% wage cut except for senior management, which took a larger cut. So instead of giving 100% of the pain to 10% of the people, they give 100% of the people 10% of the pain. This doesn't seem like a good strategy for tech. Cutting everyone's salary will dislodge your top performers who can get a better position even in poor market conditions.

I don’t think the math checks out: Salary isn’t the only expense, so you might be looking at a 15% wage cut to keep 10% of the workforce. With stock performance, I’ve already taken a 10% wage cut. Cut another 15% in cash and I’m gonna be super unhappy about my comp.

Re: “Copycat” layoffs won’t help tech companies or their employees

#29

Post by treis »

wpietri wrote: post #9
treis wrote: post #2

This just seems wrong to me. Productivity at the FAANGs was low pre-covid and tanked further when they tried to grow rapidly during COVID. Thanos snapping a significant portion of your workforce is probably the best way to get some level of productivity back. Ideally, you would carefully evaluate everything and trim the fat. But that's probably not possible and if it were it'd play out over a year or two which is wor…

I understand you feel that way. And clearly, that's the dominant narrative about layoffs. What makes you value those feelings enough to reject out of hand a professor who has been studying it for decades?

Because you can't study an unprecedented situation for decades

Because rules derived over the last decades or whatever don't necessarily apply to an unprecedented situation

Because pretty much all the CEOs and employees say that productivity is in the toilet

Because I don't see 20% or whatever more useful products/features coming out of any of these companies

Re: “Copycat” layoffs won’t help tech companies or their employees

#30

Post by habibur »

pookeh wrote: post #3

I always wondered if high profile CEOs and shareholders know something substantial of the upcoming future that us leaf nodes are just clueless about. Is it just copy cat or deep info for privileged clubs?

They know what we all already had been knowing, nothing new. But were slow to react.

Everyone had been believing that there will be a huge surge in economic activity post-covid, aka starting from 2022. Therefore over hired in the pandemic to catch the market.

We know that didn't happen. Rather Ukraine war has dampened it further. Now they are hurrying to correct it. They were dragging feet initially, but Musk's successful Twitter layoff triggered another avalanche.

Post reply on HN