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“Copycat” layoffs won’t help tech companies or their employees

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11–20 of 310 posts

Re: “Copycat” layoffs won’t help tech companies or their employees

#11
If 100k people are let go that’s 100k licenses lost across ~25 different vendors. Layoffs are happening because growth is flatlining or reversing. Tech is very insular as startups are created to solve problems in other tech companies, so if the flywheel of tech companies buying from each other stops, the entire thing can reverse quickly.

Also seed rounds were oversubscribed with no diligence, product, and money raised on little more than names and vague ideas. Series A was possible pre-revenue. Series B on 100 to 250x revenue. The whole thing was unsustainable.

Finally a huge number of tech employees were “barnacles” or those somehow making 6 figure salaries while providing little or negative value. Now that the music has stopped those people are being cut. I’m talking about agile / scrum people, DEI, ethicists, bloated HR, and all manner of not-revenue generating employees. Push has come to shove and they are jettisoned first.

Re: “Copycat” layoffs won’t help tech companies or their employees

#12
post #2

This just seems wrong to me. Productivity at the FAANGs was low pre-covid and tanked further when they tried to grow rapidly during COVID. Thanos snapping a significant portion of your workforce is probably the best way to get some level of productivity back. Ideally, you would carefully evaluate everything and trim the fat. But that's probably not possible and if it were it'd play out over a year or two which is wor…

How do you define productivity in this context? Musk style LOC? How many features you shipped? Let's pick one of the more sensible ones - features you shipped. Who defines those features - is top level management responsible for the product vision, overall strategy that then middle management turns into features?

For companies like MAANG that are already hugely successful and have hit a wall so to speak, they don't need low level productivity before they need top level strategy and vision. Apple is a good example of their management priorities being clear - they seem to know what works and where to go next quarter and their middle management also seems capable enough to turn that into products/features and make their Engineers' lives simpler so they can be productive delivering on it.

For every 10k+ layoff assuming that it's the lackey low level guys the aren't productive that needed to be laid off is not only inaccurate (lots of greatly productive Googlers have been let go for example) but also unfairly cuts a whole lot of slack for the greater financial burden on the company folks up top that are in charge of strategy and vision. After all they are also the same people that hired the people who are laid of - directly or indirectly.

Re: “Copycat” layoffs won’t help tech companies or their employees

#13
post #3

I always wondered if high profile CEOs and shareholders know something substantial of the upcoming future that us leaf nodes are just clueless about. Is it just copy cat or deep info for privileged clubs?

After having an opportunity to talk 1:1 with two of the most revered personalities/founders/ceos in tech, I’ve come to the conclusion that they are as much full of s** as the rest of us. Probably even more.

I know the sample size of 2 is not scientific, but it was enough for me to not have any illusions about the nature of things.

Re: “Copycat” layoffs won’t help tech companies or their employees

#14
> instead of laying off 10% of their workforce, they had everybody take a 10% wage cut except for senior management, which took a larger cut. So instead of giving 100% of the pain to 10% of the people, they give 100% of the people 10% of the pain.

This doesn't seem like a good strategy for tech. Cutting everyone's salary will dislodge your top performers who can get a better position even in poor market conditions.

Re: “Copycat” layoffs won’t help tech companies or their employees

#15
post #3

I always wondered if high profile CEOs and shareholders know something substantial of the upcoming future that us leaf nodes are just clueless about. Is it just copy cat or deep info for privileged clubs?

I still regret not liquidating at the end of 2021 while all CEOs were selling their positions by the 10s of millions.

Re: “Copycat” layoffs won’t help tech companies or their employees

#16
post #2

This just seems wrong to me. Productivity at the FAANGs was low pre-covid and tanked further when they tried to grow rapidly during COVID. Thanos snapping a significant portion of your workforce is probably the best way to get some level of productivity back. Ideally, you would carefully evaluate everything and trim the fat. But that's probably not possible and if it were it'd play out over a year or two which is wor…

Maybe do some research or read the literature?

Re: “Copycat” layoffs won’t help tech companies or their employees

#17
post #3

I always wondered if high profile CEOs and shareholders know something substantial of the upcoming future that us leaf nodes are just clueless about. Is it just copy cat or deep info for privileged clubs?

CEO tenure has been dropping for years. So what they know is that if they want to get paid in a big way, they need to quickly do things that look tough and improve short-term cash flow, which in turn bump the stock price.

If they wanted to actually be tough, they could ride it out and take slowdowns as a time to really improve internally. As an example, take Toyota, which rose from the decimation of post-war Japan to the world's largest car company by sticking to a no-layoffs policy and using slack times to invest in people, process, and plant.

Re: “Copycat” layoffs won’t help tech companies or their employees

#18
This really depends on the percentage of the workforce your laying off. A small %2-%6 one is really getting rid of people you don't want, but it's too much of a pain in the ass to do the entire PIP & political process to do so, or they're toxic / unproductive but well positioned that firing them is hard. A streamlined 'just pick people' layoff process helps with all of those issues. The bottom %5 percentile people that get dropped in a %5 lay off were already near the chopping block. While larger %10-%50 layoffs are really economically motivated.

The thing is although, you can't do %5 layoffs when your doing well, or the economy is doing well, so you use such times as now as an opportunity to do so. You'll know the layoffs are more economically motivated when there are multiple waves or they become larger in percentage of employees.

Like why did the google layoff %6? I definitely think it was a trim the fat operation, and the opportunity to get rid of some well positioned, unproductive long term rest-and-vesters, which is why a bunch of very long tenure people got laid off at google now.

Re: “Copycat” layoffs won’t help tech companies or their employees

#19
post #14

> instead of laying off 10% of their workforce, they had everybody take a 10% wage cut except for senior management, which took a larger cut. So instead of giving 100% of the pain to 10% of the people, they give 100% of the people 10% of the pain. This doesn't seem like a good strategy for tech. Cutting everyone's salary will dislodge your top performers who can get a better position even in poor market conditions.

> Cutting everyone's salary will dislodge your top performers who can get a better position even in poor market conditions.

Will it? Are your top performers only there because of the pay? And how do you even determine who your top performers are? I see this sort of logic frequently and I don't even know how to measure it, much less believe it.

Re: “Copycat” layoffs won’t help tech companies or their employees

#20
post #3

I always wondered if high profile CEOs and shareholders know something substantial of the upcoming future that us leaf nodes are just clueless about. Is it just copy cat or deep info for privileged clubs?

> I always wondered if high profile CEOs and shareholders know something substantial of the upcoming future that us leaf nodes are just clueless about.

If they knew the future, then why did they overhire in the first place?

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