Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

AI is in danger of being swallowed up by copyright law

heathermeeker.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 705 posts

Re: AI is in danger of being swallowed up by copyright law

#151

Post by tehcheat418 »

owlbite wrote: post #143
kirse wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AI companies can ask for permission if they want to train their models on other people's works Do you ask for permission when you train your mind on copyrighted books? Or observe paintings? Or listen to music? Do you ask for permission when you get new ideas from HN that aren't your own? Humans are constantly ingesting gobs of "copyrighted" insights that they eventually remix into their own creations without necessar…

I can't be trivially copy/pasted and replicated at scale.

Does that mean once you can be there is no ethical responsibility not to?

Re: AI is in danger of being swallowed up by copyright law

#152

Post by jeroenhd »

scheeseman486 wrote: post #106
jeroenhd wrote: post #105

There's no part of AI that is being swallowed up by copyright. AI companies can ask for permission if they want to train their models on other people's works. It's not that hard, various image hosting sites have already added an opt-in/opt-out toggle to their services. Sites might even get away with using this stuff as compensation for free hosting. The fact of the matter is that the AI companies don't want to ask fo…

The outcome you want will inevitably lead to entrenched intellectual property holders having an effective monopoly on the best AI tools. You know that Stable Diffusion lawsuit? Go check who the lawyers behind that work for; Disney wants that same outcome.

People who made or bought out the content get to have the content. I don't necessarily see the problem with that except for the ridiculous amount of time copyright remains valid.

If a company invests $250 million into an original movie, I don't see why they shouldn't have some say over their content for at least a couple of years. Not until 2150 or whatever the end date for modern works is supposed to be, but give it some time at least.

OpenAI is the result of billions being thrown around. When it comes to billions, it doesn't matter if they come from Disney, Google, Microsoft or Amazon. None of these companies have our individual rights at heart, they only care about profits.

In this rare occasion, the interests of the people and Disney align. The laws protecting the independent writers/programmers/artists are the same ones that protect Disney.

The tools themselves work on arbitrary data sets. Anyone who can dig up enough public domain/attribution free pictures/code/text can train their own AI without even coming close to copyright issues. Hell, had these super smart AI people managed to find out a method of attribution, the data set would include massive amounts of works released under Creative Commons or open source licenses.

Re: AI is in danger of being swallowed up by copyright law

#153

Post by pavlov »

kirse wrote: post #121
jeroenhd wrote: post #105

There's no part of AI that is being swallowed up by copyright. AI companies can ask for permission if they want to train their models on other people's works. It's not that hard, various image hosting sites have already added an opt-in/opt-out toggle to their services. Sites might even get away with using this stuff as compensation for free hosting. The fact of the matter is that the AI companies don't want to ask fo…

AI companies can ask for permission if they want to train their models on other people's works Do you ask for permission when you train your mind on copyrighted books? Or observe paintings? Or listen to music? Do you ask for permission when you get new ideas from HN that aren't your own? Humans are constantly ingesting gobs of "copyrighted" insights that they eventually remix into their own creations without necessar…

> “Do you ask for permission when you train your mind on copyrighted books?”

I’m not able to read billions of books in less than an hour.

Even if we agree that machine learning is like human learning, scale commonly matters in law.

Re: AI is in danger of being swallowed up by copyright law

#154

Post by happymellon »

kirse wrote: post #121
jeroenhd wrote: post #105

There's no part of AI that is being swallowed up by copyright. AI companies can ask for permission if they want to train their models on other people's works. It's not that hard, various image hosting sites have already added an opt-in/opt-out toggle to their services. Sites might even get away with using this stuff as compensation for free hosting. The fact of the matter is that the AI companies don't want to ask fo…

AI companies can ask for permission if they want to train their models on other people's works Do you ask for permission when you train your mind on copyrighted books? Or observe paintings? Or listen to music? Do you ask for permission when you get new ideas from HN that aren't your own? Humans are constantly ingesting gobs of "copyrighted" insights that they eventually remix into their own creations without necessar…

It gets called plagiarism, and there are lots of lawsuits preventing this.

Re: AI is in danger of being swallowed up by copyright law

#155

Post by jeroenhd »

okamiueru wrote: post #142

I'm hooked on Stable Diffusion. It's the most impressive sudden leaps in technology in my 30 or so years of being old enough to understand it. Much of the power it has, is based on the material it is trained on, and I'm very appreciative of the work and effort that was made in order to make it what it is. And, it's only getting started. That said... I get it. Huggingface are working on a diffusion based model for mus…

Monetary risk, that's why. Cross the wrong people and you'll find yourself extradited to another country and tried for copyright laws you didn't even know existed. I'm honestly surprised OpenAI models know about Disney properties.

Re: AI is in danger of being swallowed up by copyright law

#156

Post by hiAndrewQuinn »

AI directly threatens the livelihoods of most white collar workers, most of us here included. Of course they'll use any means available to cobble together a cartel to maintain the human monopoly on production of intellectual and creative works. Now is the best time to do it, thanks to the incredible flashiness and popular awareness of these new bits of software.

Re: AI is in danger of being swallowed up by copyright law

#157

Post by tikhonj »

sdenton4 wrote: post #110
Groxx wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I think this is the crux of the issue that people keep glossing over when claiming it's not a true reproduction. Drawing Coca Cola's logo from memory by hand and slapping it on your product is still copyright infringement, even if it isn't an image Coca Cola has ever produced. In that sense it doesn't matter at all if it's AI or human - the production and subsequent distribution for profit of a copyrighted thin…

well, you get five demerits as the coca cola logo is a trademark, covered by a whole other branch of IP law...

it's covered by both

Re: AI is in danger of being swallowed up by copyright law

#159

Post by bornfreddy »

bitwize wrote: post #148
kirse wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AI companies can ask for permission if they want to train their models on other people's works Do you ask for permission when you train your mind on copyrighted books? Or observe paintings? Or listen to music? Do you ask for permission when you get new ideas from HN that aren't your own? Humans are constantly ingesting gobs of "copyrighted" insights that they eventually remix into their own creations without necessar…

> Humans are constantly ingesting gobs of "copyrighted" insights that they eventually remix into their own creations without necessarily reimbursing the original source(s) of their creativity. Yes, and humans are being found liable for copyright infringement for doing so. All that's needed to establish liability is access and substantial similarity ; the bar for the latter can be very low indeed (see Williams et al.…

Humans also (usually) remember where we saw something and can attribute the source. ML at this point doesn't do that.

Re: AI is in danger of being swallowed up by copyright law

#160

Post by happymellon »

pigsty wrote: post #116
jeroenhd wrote: post #105

There's no part of AI that is being swallowed up by copyright. AI companies can ask for permission if they want to train their models on other people's works. It's not that hard, various image hosting sites have already added an opt-in/opt-out toggle to their services. Sites might even get away with using this stuff as compensation for free hosting. The fact of the matter is that the AI companies don't want to ask fo…

It’s strange to me that there’s a lot of overlap between people who think AI training should require explicit consent for every piece of training data, and people who think copyright and patents are insanely restrictive in the music/movies/literature/software world. It’s also worrying that requiring consent to train an AI model will inevitably lead to requiring consent to make handmade art that’s a little too similar…

Look at GitHub training it's models on other people's code.

They aren't training it on Microsoft or GitHub code.

> A world where Getty and Disney control even more than they already do.

This is exactly what is currently happening though, it's okay to rip off the little guy artist or coder. The argument here is that one big guy stood on another big guys foot, and as the little folks we shouldn't stand for it either.

Post reply on HN