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Archaeologists Unearth 3k-Year-Old Wishing Well in Germany

smithsonianmag.com

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Re: Archaeologists Unearth 3k-Year-Old Wishing Well in Germany

#21

Post by msla »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #20
ftyers wrote: post #18

I always wonder what they mean by "ritual", it always seems to be a throwaway word for modern or ancient cultures that just have different beliefs or traditions. But it's rarely used when talking about the author's (or anthropologist's) own culture.

The Nacirema have a deep and complex ritualistic culture.

> The Nacirema have a deep and complex ritualistic culture.

In case anyone doesn't know:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nacirema

I like this because it's a double-reflection at this point: It's someone trying to Other what they considered to be Normative American Culture, by attempting to see it as if they were an anthropologist observing a "tribe" somewhere... but it was written in 1956, so it focuses exclusively on White America in the late 1950s, which is pretty significantly Other to a lot of people these days due to shifts in culture and technology. Like, "vestal maidens who move sedately about the temple chambers in distinctive costume and headdress" is... what, exactly? I assume most of us here are Sufficiently Ancient to get that right off, but it isn't lampooning an extant group of people. Similarly, the Listener is no longer as prominent as he was back in the Age Of Anxiety, because the whole of mental health practice has moved on.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Age_of_Anxiety

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2888013/

Re: Archaeologists Unearth 3k-Year-Old Wishing Well in Germany

#22

Post by mc32 »

zetazzed wrote: post #2

Ancient Celtic culture was really into the practice of casting valuable objects into bodies of water - apparently this was a central religious practice for them. So what did the Romans do when they conquered Celtic territory?They would auction off the rights to dredge a captured lake and keep its treasure, Storage Wars style. Truly a pioneering capitalist civilization!

I mean, yeah on the one hand it's showing disregard for another culture, but on the other hand, it would be a waste of good and valuable resources not to recover the objects.

Re: Archaeologists Unearth 3k-Year-Old Wishing Well in Germany

#23

Post by pyuser583 »

colechristensen wrote: post #6
yareally wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, I never heard anything about this before and I love reading about Roman history. Humans don't really change much, do they? Any additional reading you might recommend?

Read SPQR The Romans are really… familiar. They invented the blueprint for western civilization and there are lots of things about the people that feel very modern. With a few tweaks and lucky chances, the Industrial Revolution could have happened more than 1000 years earlier. To get a sense of this go look up translations of Roman graffiti, especially at Pompeii.

The Roman attitude toward work was the exact opposite of the capitalist attitude.

Romans saw work as servile and debasing. One reason they had slaves was so they could be insulated from it.

It’s hard to see that attitude leading to the Industrial Revolution.

Re: Archaeologists Unearth 3k-Year-Old Wishing Well in Germany

#24

Post by pyuser583 »

GalenErso wrote: post #10
colechristensen wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read SPQR The Romans are really… familiar. They invented the blueprint for western civilization and there are lots of things about the people that feel very modern. With a few tweaks and lucky chances, the Industrial Revolution could have happened more than 1000 years earlier. To get a sense of this go look up translations of Roman graffiti, especially at Pompeii.

> They invented the blueprint for western civilization Ahem. The debate between Mary Beard and Boris Johnson convinced me it was the Greeks.

There’s a very old YouTube video of a drunken Boris Johnson reciting Homer in the original Greek.

Re: Archaeologists Unearth 3k-Year-Old Wishing Well in Germany

#25

Post by lostlogin »

zetazzed wrote: post #2

Ancient Celtic culture was really into the practice of casting valuable objects into bodies of water - apparently this was a central religious practice for them. So what did the Romans do when they conquered Celtic territory?They would auction off the rights to dredge a captured lake and keep its treasure, Storage Wars style. Truly a pioneering capitalist civilization!

It might all be chance, but Ive visited a few Roman religious sites that appear to be built on top of earlier sacred sites and it makes me think that the Romans just slapped their temples down on top of other religious places and carried on with the rituals.

Re: Archaeologists Unearth 3k-Year-Old Wishing Well in Germany

#26

Post by Ralfp »

My favorite archeologic discovery when it comes to ancient central Europe is the Tollense Valley Battle.

Around 3300 years ago in central Europe two groups, estimated 4000 men total, have clashed on and around a 120 meters long stone bridge crossing the river and valley of Tollense. By the time those men engaged, this bridge was some 500 years old already, which means it was build 3800 years ago.

This battle tells us that there were organized forces in central Europe thousands of years ago, and that there was important road going through the region that required construction and maintenance of such structure for this many years. But we currently have no idea who were those people or even what points of interests was this road supposed to connect.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tollense_valley_battlefield

Re: Archaeologists Unearth 3k-Year-Old Wishing Well in Germany

#27

Post by ddejohn »

Ralfp wrote: post #26

My favorite archeologic discovery when it comes to ancient central Europe is the Tollense Valley Battle. Around 3300 years ago in central Europe two groups, estimated 4000 men total, have clashed on and around a 120 meters long stone bridge crossing the river and valley of Tollense. By the time those men engaged, this bridge was some 500 years old already, which means it was build 3800 years ago. This battle tells us…

What a fascinating read. Thanks for sharing. I can't help but think of Motel of the Mysteries whenever reading about archaeology.

Re: Archaeologists Unearth 3k-Year-Old Wishing Well in Germany

#28

Post by csomar »

lostlogin wrote: post #25
zetazzed wrote: post #2

Ancient Celtic culture was really into the practice of casting valuable objects into bodies of water - apparently this was a central religious practice for them. So what did the Romans do when they conquered Celtic territory?They would auction off the rights to dredge a captured lake and keep its treasure, Storage Wars style. Truly a pioneering capitalist civilization!

It might all be chance, but Ive visited a few Roman religious sites that appear to be built on top of earlier sacred sites and it makes me think that the Romans just slapped their temples down on top of other religious places and carried on with the rituals.

That pretty much describes almost every civilization I read about. Sometimes, they are even lazier. They'd just re-purpose the church as a mosque or vice-versa. Heck, we had a recent instance of that (hagia sofia)

Re: Archaeologists Unearth 3k-Year-Old Wishing Well in Germany

#29

Post by boomboomsubban »

beambot wrote: post #16
hvs wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea that the Roman Empire was on the verge of an Industrial Revolution on par with the 19th and 20th centuries is a bit overblow: https://acoup.blog/2022/08/26/collections-why-no-roman-indus...

Fascinating article... But when you consider that the driving initial application was pumping water (out of coal mines), you have to acknowledge that pumping water would've also been a major concern for the Romans too -- i.e. hydrology and aquaducts

Yes, but transporting coal is harder than pumping water, at least until you get a relatively efficient engine.

Re: Archaeologists Unearth 3k-Year-Old Wishing Well in Germany

#30

Post by AlotOfReading »

imoverclocked wrote: post #15

I immediately wonder if someone wished to be remembered… thus unearthing this 3k years later grants their wish. Does anyone know how delicately these sites are dug up? Ie: would we know if they had thrown straw or other degradable materials in and it had been covered up? Seems like a well being deeper than usual has the opportunity to have multiple ages of use and artifacts.

[0] is a good example of the standard, expected quality of practice on a site. I've seen better and I've seen a lot worse.

As for what you can tell from excavations, it depends. I excavated a bronze age burial in the UK where you could see the soil impression left by a bag holding remains in excavation, even though the bag itself had long since rotted away. In other cases you may recover the actual organic material, especially if it's been burned. Even in cases where you're not that lucky it still may be possible to tell through phytoliths or other analytical methods.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcT1vGyJzyg

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