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Why I Hate Android

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Re: Why I Hate Android

#121

Post by stitchy »

I've always wondered why +MG Siegler disliked Android so much. After reading this article, I find his arguments to be less than compelling. He equates Android's failed dream of turning carriers into dumb data pipes, with the worst sort of insidious backstabbing. I'll admit that I was angry when Google sided with Verizon on axing Wireless Net Neutrality, but it wasn't going to happen any other way. Does he honestly think that Google was the deciding factor for the FCC? Does he think that the FCC was going to say no to Verizon, but since Google said that it was OK, they decided to skip on Wireless Net Neutrality? I'm not defending Google's decision, but I'm confident that Apple and Microsoft would have done the same thing if they were in the same position. To pretend otherwise is disingenuous.

Also, what does Android being open source have anything to do with his argument? He sneers at Android calling itself open. Why? Sure, Google made a bad decision by supporting Verizon's take on Net Neutrality, but how does that make their source code less open for modification? It may mean that we can't treat carriers as dumb data pipes, but that fact makes Android less open?

Re: Why I Hate Android

#122

Post by p3rs3us »

fceccon wrote: post #92
gizzlon wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Apple have also disabled downloads of apps and podcasts over 20 MB on the behest of a single carrier with a poor network (AT&T), applying the restriction to all phones, worldwide" That's horrible.. is it true? Can anyone confirm this?

Yes, I just tried to download a 34MB game over 3G and this was the result http://cl.ly/3W3M1g2q1J0B3T2K143d

You got to be kidding me! :O Really you can't download anything over 20mb! I can run a torrent and download anything i like on my android!

Re: Why I Hate Android

#123

Post by RyanMcGreal »

Apple, for all the shit they get for being "closed" and "evil", has actually done far more to wrestle control back from the carriers and put it into the hands of consumers.

/s/consumers/Apple/

Re: Why I Hate Android

#124

Post by etherael »

2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #100
lostsock wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Came here to say exactly this. OP doesn't hate Android, he hates the mobile landscape in the US. I live in Australia with a fully unlocked Android handset. I pay $16 / month for my no contract dumb pipe and that's that. Android has nothing to do with the issue that the OP hates...

I live in Australia too. Carriers are still able to have their way to some small extent. I was regularly inquiring about android handsets for the last couple years. There were still carrier exclusives (for x number of months), and no one would sell me a high-endish, unlocked handset (e.g. Galaxy S). The easiest way to get an unlocked Android handset is buy it online (be careful you get correct handset variant). If ma…

There's no such thing as an unlocked iphone. I get what you mean, carrier unlocked, but the implication you can get one that is unlocked in the same way as an android phone can be unlocked is not true. And you're right, even in Australia if you absolutely positively insist on dealing with the carriers at retail, they will try to screw you almost as hard as the people in the US get screwed. You don't have to put up with it though, just buy online.

Re: Why I Hate Android

#125

Post by fauigerzigerk »

Tyrannosaurs wrote: post #119
fauigerzigerk wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess you're also unhappy about the "jailbreaking" metaphor then, or about "opiate for the masses". I was just responding to this phrase from the article: "But I cannot respect their decision to continue to work on this platform that perpetuates our imprisonment"

To be honest (and this isn't aimed at you), I'm just bored of tediously overstated metaphor across the board when it comes to the Googe / Apple discussions. I think it does nothing for useful debate and just flames the tribalism and I think that there are genuinely interesting things to discuss that are being obscured. That and wanting to make the soap in the showers gag. But as I say, not specifically aimed at you,…

I can see where you're coming from, but meta discussions about the use of metaphors aren't going help. As I see it, you have obscured my actual point by starting a debate about the wording.

Apple's narrow minded content restrictions are a real and serious limitation of what I can do professionally as a developer. Carriers overcharging for some services is not, so the choice is very clear to me and it's the choice between less freedom and more freedom.

I do not insist on using the "prison" metaphor for that and I didn't invent it either. I merely responded to someone who did use it and he even criticised people for continuing to work on Android. If that is not over the top I don't know what is.

Re: Why I Hate Android

#126

Post by bmelton »

ekianjo wrote: post #21
ubernostrum wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's extremely unhelpful, in these discussions, to resort to "well Apple does bad things too, so how can you prefer Apple?" Ultimately I think the point the article's getting at here is that Apple's at least been relatively honest in their marketing; they never delivered an open stack based around principles of software freedom, but they also never promised us they would. Google did promise that; they promise…

So, to use a metaphor. Let's say you have two people: - one criminal who steals most of the time to earn a living but does not claim to do otherwise. - one person with high moral standards, who, once in his life, resorts to stealing because he had to in a set of specific circumstances. ...it is ok to prefer the criminal just on the ground that he is faithful to himself rather than the person with high moral standards…

While I think the metaphor needs a lot of work, I'd actually prefer the first guy to the second. The first guy I know where my limits are. I'm not letting him in on my alarm password, and I'm not loaning him my car for fear that he's going to take it.

Aside from that, I know exactly where the boundaries are, and I can meet him at a bar, have some drinks and have a generally good time.

Re: Why I Hate Android

#127

Post by DeusExMachina »

diminish wrote: post #70
DeusExMachina wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please notice that, while you complain that emotion based arguments like "I love, I hate x" make it to the top of HN, you yourself started your comment with That is exactly why I hate Apple.

Ahh that was the rhetoric, to show everyone how it sounds. "I hate Apple, because" or "I hate Verizon because" - type of arguments can be used interchangeably with a simple change of subject. Here the writer has an emotional affinity to Apple, or Verizon and accepts any weird policies coming from one, but does not at all trust the other.

I did not notice the quotes when I read your comment the first time. Did you add them afterwards? Of course that changes the meaning of your post.

Re: Why I Hate Android

#128

Post by technoslut »

Kylekramer wrote: post #15

So, Google had a pipe dream about turning carriers into dumb pipes, and had to face reality when the carriers wouldn't let them. Therefore, MG hates Android. I just don't know what MG wanted to Google to do. We all have our own ideas about how the world should be. The options for Google seem to be a hardline tactic to get exactly what they envisioned and subsequently have a dead on arrival Android OS, or work within…

>The options for Google seem to be a hardline tactic to get exactly what they envisioned and subsequently have a dead on arrival Android OS, or work within the system.

The problem is that Google hasn't been working within the system to change anything. Android gave back the power back to the US carriers and the OEMs have skinned the OS which brings us back to the old days where you would never get an OS update after you purchase the device.

The top selling Android phone in the US is the Galaxy S and their owners will never see an update for the life of their device and contract unless they are willing to jump through hoops and install custom ROMs.

Re: Why I Hate Android

#129

Post by icebraining »

bad_user wrote: post #38
emehrkay wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Don't get me started on the logical hoops MG must jump through to view a compromise on a policy proposal for net neutrality as the ultimate betrayal while a device that the manufacturer must approve all software that runs on it is A-OK. I see this as two different things. Google buddying up with Verizon to change net neutrality in the mobile space has an impact on everyone while Apple preventing software from runni…

I really don't get HOW and WHY people want government regulations, the same government that is pushing for SOPA. Government regulations of the market are only useful in one case only: to prevent abuses from established monopolies. However, wireless Internet is not monopolized. And you should checkout the competition in Europe. It's absolutely crazy. Google buddying up with Verizon to change net neutrality in the mobi…

And you should checkout the competition in Europe

"Europe" is a big place, but here at least regulation is aplenty, to promote competition. An example is the law that forces carriers to unlock phones of SIM restrictions for free if the contract has already ended.

Re: Why I Hate Android

#130

Post by icebraining »

hessenwolf wrote: post #113
StavrosK wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not entirely clear on how it works in Australia, but in Greece you can either pay the full amount and get an unlocked phone, or get a carrier subsidy with contracts. The amount of the subsidy depends on the plan you choose, with higher-costing plans getting higher subsidies. For example, a two-year, 50 EUR/month plan gets you a free iPhone 4S or the equivalent android phone, if I remember correctly. Also, not a s…

In Ireland you can buy unlocked, or get a discounted locked phone with a contract. However, after your initial contract runs out the carrier legally must unlock the phone. In practice, getting them to unlock the phone is a bit like getting the direct debit on your gym membership cancelled, but you get the idea.

Same here in Portugal since 2010.
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