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Why I Hate Android

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Re: Why I Hate Android

#111

Post by Hari_Seldon »

maxklein wrote: post #50

This argument is pointless, because it's about only the U.S, which is a small proportion of phones used in the world. The rest of the world does not have the insane carrier monopolies and unusual pricing structures that are prevalent in the U.S. For the rest of the world, phones sell on the merits of their software and hardware - and that's what android should be measured on. And when it comes to that, android is win…

It's pretty much the same here in the UK, carriers tend to dictate conditions which the manufacturers must adhere to, except for Apple of course.

Re: Why I Hate Android

#112

Post by thatjoshguy »

enobrev wrote: post #97
Gorbzel wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you even read the article before criticizing? Seriously, I hate to ask things of that sort on HN, but Siegler specifically points out that his problem with Google in this matter is they use the faux idea of "open" to rile pro-Droid folks like yourself at the expense of true progress vis-a-vis the carriers. Call people fanboys all you want, but it's just a copout on your part. You hate totalitarian control on your…

I'm not sure I understand what's so "faux" about the openness of Android. It's not just an idea: http://source.android.com/source/downloading.html Being that it's an open source project, why wouldn't the carriers have the freedom to add or remove what they want? I don't necessarily like the carrier builds, but they're free to do with Android what they please. That's the general idea behind open source. I'm not disagr…

> But your implication that Android isn't open source is a bit silly.

I'm don't think anyone is arguing this fact. Android, generally, isn't 'open' in the sense that it is totally controlled by the carriers.

Re: Why I Hate Android

#113

Post by hessenwolf »

StavrosK wrote: post #108
Niksko wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I came here just to say this. Why do people in the US continue to ignore the rest of the world? Only in the US does this carrier branded phone bullshit occur. I live in Australia and I'm quite content with my unlocked Galaxy Nexus on my $40 Amaysim plan. Sure, it would be awesome to have paid $99 for my Galaxy Nexus and have the rest of the $700 I actually spent on it subsidised by Google, but that's the way it is at…

I'm not entirely clear on how it works in Australia, but in Greece you can either pay the full amount and get an unlocked phone, or get a carrier subsidy with contracts. The amount of the subsidy depends on the plan you choose, with higher-costing plans getting higher subsidies. For example, a two-year, 50 EUR/month plan gets you a free iPhone 4S or the equivalent android phone, if I remember correctly. Also, not a s…

In Ireland you can buy unlocked, or get a discounted locked phone with a contract. However, after your initial contract runs out the carrier legally must unlock the phone. In practice, getting them to unlock the phone is a bit like getting the direct debit on your gym membership cancelled, but you get the idea.

Re: Why I Hate Android

#114

Post by mgkimsal »

StavrosK wrote: post #108
Niksko wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I came here just to say this. Why do people in the US continue to ignore the rest of the world? Only in the US does this carrier branded phone bullshit occur. I live in Australia and I'm quite content with my unlocked Galaxy Nexus on my $40 Amaysim plan. Sure, it would be awesome to have paid $99 for my Galaxy Nexus and have the rest of the $700 I actually spent on it subsidised by Google, but that's the way it is at…

I'm not entirely clear on how it works in Australia, but in Greece you can either pay the full amount and get an unlocked phone, or get a carrier subsidy with contracts. The amount of the subsidy depends on the plan you choose, with higher-costing plans getting higher subsidies. For example, a two-year, 50 EUR/month plan gets you a free iPhone 4S or the equivalent android phone, if I remember correctly. Also, not a s…

I'd love that in the US.

Here, you can get a phone unlocked (in most cases) for a higher fee, but the plan rates don't change. You can get an iphone for $800, unlocked, but it will still only work on AT&T in the US, and you still pay $50+/month. Or you can get one for $200 if you commit to $50/month for 2 years. No monthly price diff. :/

Re: Why I Hate Android

#115

Post by fauigerzigerk »

Tyrannosaurs wrote: post #107
fauigerzigerk wrote: post #61

I know a prison when I see it. Paying carriers a little more than if they had been turned into dumb pipes is not prison. Having my content restricted to Apple's disneyfied subset of the world is as close as any prison metaphor gets to the real thing.

Oh please, let's not get out of hand. If Apple is a prison it's the most liberal open prison in the history of the justice system. It may be constrained but it's hardly four to a cell and making sure you don't drop the soap in the showers.

I guess you're also unhappy about the "jailbreaking" metaphor then, or about "opiate for the masses".

I was just responding to this phrase from the article: "But I cannot respect their decision to continue to work on this platform that perpetuates our imprisonment"

Re: Why I Hate Android

#117

Post by acheron »

idspispopd wrote: post #46
windexh8er wrote: post #7

"""Apple, for all the shit they get for being “closed” and “evil”, has actually done far more to wrestle control back from the carriers and put it into the hands of consumers. Google set off to help in this goal, then stabbed us all in the back and went the complete other way, to the side of the carriers. And because they smiled the entire time they were doing it and fed us “open” bullshit, we thanked them for it. We…

Actually.. Apple paired with Cingular. Because, as it turns out, Apple too had problems convincing carriers to take on the idea. AT&T bought cingular, realised it was a good thing and got exclusivity in exchange for better plans for consumers.

"AT&T bought cingular" is not really accurate.

Sequence of events:

2000 - SBC and BellSouth jointly create a company called "Cingular Wireless".

2002 - AT&T spins off a company called "AT&T Wireless".

2004 - Cingular buys out AT&T Wireless and merges it completely into Cingular.

2005 - SBC buys out AT&T, and rebrands themselves as "AT&T". So at this point Cingular is jointly owned by AT&T and BellSouth.

2006 - AT&T buys out BellSouth. Cingular is now wholly owned by AT&T.

2007 - Given that, Cingular rebrands itself as AT&T (legally "AT&T Mobility").

Re: Why I Hate Android

#118

Post by bane »

thatjoshguy wrote: post #112
enobrev wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I understand what's so "faux" about the openness of Android. It's not just an idea: http://source.android.com/source/downloading.html Being that it's an open source project, why wouldn't the carriers have the freedom to add or remove what they want? I don't necessarily like the carrier builds, but they're free to do with Android what they please. That's the general idea behind open source. I'm not disagr…

> But your implication that Android isn't open source is a bit silly. I'm don't think anyone is arguing this fact. Android, generally, isn't 'open' in the sense that it is totally controlled by the carriers.

I would like to introduce you to

http://www.cyanogenmod.com/

http://miuiandroid.com/

two efforts among many that demonstrate that it isn't "totally" controlled by the carriers.

Re: Why I Hate Android

#119

Post by Tyrannosaurs »

fauigerzigerk wrote: post #115
Tyrannosaurs wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh please, let's not get out of hand. If Apple is a prison it's the most liberal open prison in the history of the justice system. It may be constrained but it's hardly four to a cell and making sure you don't drop the soap in the showers.

I guess you're also unhappy about the "jailbreaking" metaphor then, or about "opiate for the masses". I was just responding to this phrase from the article: "But I cannot respect their decision to continue to work on this platform that perpetuates our imprisonment"

To be honest (and this isn't aimed at you), I'm just bored of tediously overstated metaphor across the board when it comes to the Googe / Apple discussions. I think it does nothing for useful debate and just flames the tribalism and I think that there are genuinely interesting things to discuss that are being obscured.

That and wanting to make the soap in the showers gag.

But as I say, not specifically aimed at you, I'm just getting increasingly anti-metaphor in what should be factual discussions between technical people.

Re: Why I Hate Android

#120

Post by StavrosK »

mgkimsal wrote: post #114
StavrosK wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not entirely clear on how it works in Australia, but in Greece you can either pay the full amount and get an unlocked phone, or get a carrier subsidy with contracts. The amount of the subsidy depends on the plan you choose, with higher-costing plans getting higher subsidies. For example, a two-year, 50 EUR/month plan gets you a free iPhone 4S or the equivalent android phone, if I remember correctly. Also, not a s…

I'd love that in the US. Here, you can get a phone unlocked (in most cases) for a higher fee, but the plan rates don't change. You can get an iphone for $800, unlocked, but it will still only work on AT&T in the US, and you still pay $50+/month. Or you can get one for $200 if you commit to $50/month for 2 years. No monthly price diff. :/

Ouch. Over here, if you don't want the phone subsidy (maybe you like your current phone), a certain amount is deducted from your monthly payments (so you still get the money back).
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