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Job Hunting in 2022

mhlakhani.com

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Re: Job Hunting in 2022

#51

Post by bcrosby95 »

Hermitian909 wrote: post #27
vsareto wrote: post #9

That first impression (and how you tackled it) of system design interviews makes me question their usefulness. Like, how good of a signal can companies really be getting if it's too different from real world systems? Feels like an artificial wall too - many companies don't approach the scale where this stuff matters, so getting that experience is hard.

> Like, how good of a signal can companies really be getting if it's too different from real world systems? There are "layers" to the signal you can get from system design interviews: 1. Are they aware of "big concepts", indexing, sharding, queues, scheduling, etc. 2. Are they comfortable actually using and manipulating these abstractions in an academic sense? e.g. new college grads may have never used an index, but…

> imagine we didn't have feature X, how would you add it to the product?

I think pulling specific ideas from your actual system is full of traps. These are probably problems you've thought of - both actively and passively - for days, months, or even years.

The person you're interviewing has had no such benefit, and it might be very hard for the interviewer to be able to separate what they think is reasonable and what is actually reasonable.

Re: Job Hunting in 2022

#52

Post by nvarsj »

nsxwolf wrote: post #30
nvarsj wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They had a _full_ pipeline, interviewing every day for three weeks straight. I honestly think I'd be physically incapable of doing this. I'm on the HSP side and even a single set of interviews is enough to drive me into an insomnia/anxiety cycle for weeks. I can't even imagine what this would be like for me. Albeit I admit it's the best way to get the job you want. Maybe I'm in the wrong industry...

This is incredibly common. I hate running interviews - we do the leetcode whiteboard pressure cooker crap - it's a policy I have no say in unfortunately. I've had candidates with strong backgrounds go to pieces right in front of me - it's awful to watch and I hate that I had anything to do with making someone experience that. More people than you might imagine take Xanax to get through interviews.

> More people than you might imagine take Xanax to get through interviews.

You know, that's actually a great idea I never thought about. I'll see if I can get a script next time I go through interview loops. Might make the process less hellish for me, I hope.

Re: Job Hunting in 2022

#53

Post by mhlakhani »

dnissley wrote: post #48
yamazakiwi wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you would be very successful in that role... but the company says no... that is a poor fit and is a reflection of their ability to hire qualified candidates to meet their real needs. I'm confused why this is funny ha ha to you...Care to expound?

Sounds like sour grapes / cope, presumably. I didn't get that vibe reading it though.

I was genuinely glad I didn't get those offers as it would be awkward turning them down. As an example, in one of the cases they were looking for someone who could do a lot more frontend/product work (something I don't have much experience in) so even if I did join, I wouldn't do well. That would suck both for me and the company.

(yes, it is a bit of cope - but hey, it's only through interviewing/learning more that you find bad fits)

Re: Job Hunting in 2022

#54

Post by nvarsj »

ojbyrne wrote: post #44
nvarsj wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They had a _full_ pipeline, interviewing every day for three weeks straight. I honestly think I'd be physically incapable of doing this. I'm on the HSP side and even a single set of interviews is enough to drive me into an insomnia/anxiety cycle for weeks. I can't even imagine what this would be like for me. Albeit I admit it's the best way to get the job you want. Maybe I'm in the wrong industry...

Maybe it's just me, but when I have done that, the first one or two are the hardest, then you get in a groove, and become more aware that its just a numbers game.

I think we're all affected to different degrees. I've done a few interview loops in the space of a couple weeks and it never got easier. It just got worse as my insomnia got worse. I feel it's a miracle I can pass interviews at all since I'm operating at like 10%.

Re: Job Hunting in 2022

#55

Post by yamtaddle »

nvarsj wrote: post #22
sbuccini wrote: post #3

Thanks to the author for taking the time to write this up. I think it is a fairly realistic description of what the process is like for an engineer who has spent several years working in Silicon Valley at a well-known company. The key takeaways, coming from someone with a similar background: * Rely heavily on your personal network to both identify worthwhile opportunities and for referrals which, in the Before Times,…

> They had a _full_ pipeline, interviewing every day for three weeks straight. I honestly think I'd be physically incapable of doing this. I'm on the HSP side and even a single set of interviews is enough to drive me into an insomnia/anxiety cycle for weeks. I can't even imagine what this would be like for me. Albeit I admit it's the best way to get the job you want. Maybe I'm in the wrong industry...

Shit I'm brain-dead by about 3 hours into an interview or set of interviews, even if it's not the leetcode type. It's draining in a way that no actual work, even hair-on-fire emergency work, is (except maybe sitting in very-tense meetings—that's got a similar effect on me). Doing that more than once or twice in a single week might make me consider applying to clerk at a gas station instead.

Re: Job Hunting in 2022

#56

Post by nsxwolf »

dirtbag__dad wrote: post #42
mikedelago wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't blame you. Take home assignments are ridiculous, anyway. My personal time is valuable to me and it's unrealistic to expect me to do homework just for the privilege of an interview. In my last job hunt, I flat out declined further interview if I was requested to do a take home assignment.

Would you prefer a take home or a live coding challenge? I have the total opposite experience. I have rarely done well on a live code problem, I clam up. Tbh it’s humiliating, not representative of my actual skill set, and a waste of everyone’s time. The amount of time I’d need to study to be good at live coding is less than doing a couple take homes for companies I’m actually interested in.

The idea of a take home originally appealed to me, but my actual track record with them is very poor. They are usually too open ended - sometimes they'll say to write some service, that it shouldn't take more than an evening, and then you're left questioning how much they're expecting. Do they want a quick proof of concept? Do they want unit tests? Acceptance tests?

Then there's the follow up - often a rejection with no comments on the code whatsoever. Or you get completely ghosted. Or, and this is the real kicker - they finally ask you to come in, where they have you do leetcode on a whiteboard anyway.

If the process was "Here's what we're expecting, turn it in by X date, we'll have you do a review with the team, and assuming all goes well, we'll talk about an offer at that point" I would be a lot more open to them. But that's never the process.

Re: Job Hunting in 2022

#57

Post by ketzo »

philjohn wrote: post #49
nvarsj wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They had a _full_ pipeline, interviewing every day for three weeks straight. I honestly think I'd be physically incapable of doing this. I'm on the HSP side and even a single set of interviews is enough to drive me into an insomnia/anxiety cycle for weeks. I can't even imagine what this would be like for me. Albeit I admit it's the best way to get the job you want. Maybe I'm in the wrong industry...

I feel you - last time I decided to move jobs, back in 2019, I had a week where I had an onsite every day, and by the end I was just done.

The “just done” thing can be kinda dangerous too - I did the same thing, and at the end of my hell week, I was getting close to accepting an offer I knew was subpar, just to be done interviewing.

Hard to find the right balance.

Re: Job Hunting in 2022

#58

Post by ketzo »

veqq wrote: post #32
mhlakhani wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

author here - glad to see this post on HN, and glad you liked it! re: your last question - I interviewed for both SWE and EM positions, depending on what was available at any given company. At companies that had both roles open, I talked to folks to understand what they expected out of EMs vs engineers, as it varied a lot - and then I picked whatever was more appealing to me. In aggregate I went for 70% SWE / 30% EM…

> what they expected out of EMs vs engineers, as it varied a lot I'm curious about the rough models which exist.

One of the most basic is “do your managers write code?”

My first company out of college actually banned it as a practice - EMs were not allowed to be active contributors.

I know at some companies, it’s actually a requirement, or at least heavily encouraged, for a manager to spend at least 20% time writing code.

And then some places are a mixed bag.

I can see both arguments! Just good to know that a company has a coherent philosophy on the issue.

Re: Job Hunting in 2022

#59

Post by Der_Einzige »

gymbeaux wrote: post #37

Cheat where possible using OpenGPT. Cheat where possible using OpenGPT. Cheat where possible using OpenGPT. We must prove to companies that leetcode is not the way.

If you're good enough at prompting ChatGPT to get a working leetcode hard solution in the time allowed, you're good enough at writing complete and correct code for the job.

Re: Job Hunting in 2022

#60

Post by theptip »

veqq wrote: post #32
mhlakhani wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

author here - glad to see this post on HN, and glad you liked it! re: your last question - I interviewed for both SWE and EM positions, depending on what was available at any given company. At companies that had both roles open, I talked to folks to understand what they expected out of EMs vs engineers, as it varied a lot - and then I picked whatever was more appealing to me. In aggregate I went for 70% SWE / 30% EM…

> what they expected out of EMs vs engineers, as it varied a lot I'm curious about the rough models which exist.

Some models I've seen (I'm sure there are some other ones):

Pure people manager - HR admin (compensation evaluation etc), professional development, project management, team resourcing, etc. Tend to see this less in very small companies.

TLM (Tech Lead / Manager) - Does all of the above, plus also acts as a tech lead for the project - technical design, mentoring, and possibly some coding. Tend to see this less in very big companies. TLM are typically first-line managers, I've not seen a TLM that manages managers (i.e. Director level).

Rarely, hybrid engineer/manager - Does all the above, plus expected to contribute significantly to coding. Honestly it's a red flag for me to see a team hiring for this archetype, in my opinion it's a pragmatic stopgap you might find yourself with as a small company, until you can hire an engineer or manager to split the role; it's not something you should explicitly hire for.

Sometimes, product lead as "mini-CEO" - manages the team/org and owns product direction. Typically will have a tech lead on the team to own that side of things. This can grow into a Director position, managing the team managers and still owning the product function.

Some archetyes for dedicated Staff engineers (typically the equivalent IC-track level to a team manager): https://staffeng.com/guides/staff-archetypes

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