Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop • Hacker News Board

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#791

Post by spopejoy » Fri, Jan 20, 2023, 4:34 PM UTC

comte7092 wrote: post #696

unity1001 wrote: post #682

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Citation needed, no where in your source Factory farming is the same everywhere. Here's another citation. https://www.aspca.org/protecting-farm-animals/problem-factor... . Another. https://thehumaneleague.org/article/what-is-factory-farming Another. https://sentientmedia.org/factory-farms/ Another extensive one with more references inside. https://animalequality.org/blog/2022/10/14/factory-farming-f... > Because th…

Not a single one do your sources refutes anything that I said. Or supports your claim that cows spend their whole lives on factory farms. All they say is that they exist and that most animals go through them. Newsflash! That’s what I have been saying all along. > Even if the cattle was 'first grass fed then shipped to factory farms to fatten' like you argue, the factory farming consuming ~70% of the grain in the US a…

This is documented in Michael Pollan's story about how he raised and sold a cow in the modern US meat system https://www.nytimes.com/2002/03/31/magazine/power-steer.html

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#792

Post by alphanullmeric » Fri, Jan 20, 2023, 5:31 PM UTC

theshrike79 wrote: post #780

alphanullmeric wrote: post #730

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And since potatos are healthy, and vegans believe seed oils are healthy, surely their sum (potato fries) must also be healthy, correct?

Being vegan doesn't always mean eating healthy, even though people have that idea in their head. In Finland we have a FB group called "Chips and Beer -vegans"[0] with 65k members. Potato chips are vegan, beer is vegan. You can have both and still be vegan. It's not healthy, but still vegan. I can deep-fry my tofu in the fattiest of all vegan fats and eat them with deep-fried french fries and a bunch of deep-fried Ore…

But it’s much easier to sustain a healthy diet as an omnivore, because as I mentioned, whole vegan food either lacks in satiety or taste. Which is why you typically see vegans trying to attack protein to address criticisms of satiety, or trying to defend processed foods to address criticisms of taste.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#793

Post by prepend » Fri, Jan 20, 2023, 5:54 PM UTC

isignal wrote: post #461

prepend wrote: post #312

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Here’s the ingredient list for a beyond burger [0], I don’t think your point is relevant, as while the ingredient aren’t necessarily scary, there are many of them and the product is highly processed. “Water, pea protein , expeller-pressed canola oil, refined coconut oil, rice protein, natural flavors, dried yeast, cocoa butter, methylcellulose, and less than 1% of potato starch, salt, potassium chloride, beet juice c…

The point does seem relevant. Most of the non chemical ingredients are recognizable natural or naturally derived (rice/pea protein). methylcellulose is the only odd one out.

Hamburger Pattie’s have a single ingredient: beef.

I thought it wasn’t relevant because the ingredient list is still complex compared to cow burgers. It’s nice that the long ingredient is mostly recognizable, but the point is that there’s a long list of ingredients, not that the ingredient list included toxic waste or something.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#794

Post by exolymph » Fri, Jan 20, 2023, 7:36 PM UTC

jasonmclaren wrote: post #722

exolymph wrote: post #716

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> if nicotine didn't have the specter of cigarettes hanging behind it, I'd imagine it could be quite a large market. It drives me a little bit crazy that people think nicotine itself is what's harmful about cigarettes. The myth is slowly eroding but the common knowledge about nicotine — aside from the reality that it is addictive — remains directionally wrong (as common knowledge often is).

Can you elaborate? My understanding is that nicotine raises blood pressure, which is a big part of what's harmful about cigarettes.

Nicotine may be mildly harmful, but in a similar ambiguous you-win-some-you-lose-some way to caffeine: https://www.gwern.net/Nicotine

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#795

Post by Dylan16807 » Fri, Jan 20, 2023, 7:45 PM UTC

slothtrop wrote: post #788

Dylan16807 wrote: post #773

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> No different than pain receptors, you mean. Not the best argument. I don't really mind my pain receptors going off if the signal doesn't make it to my spine. Do you?

If the signal "doesn't make it", it's an ineffectual signal. Are you suggesting plants have ineffectual signals?

I'm suggesting that more localized signals are not the same as a pain response in a centralized blob of neurons.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#796

Post by spicymaki » Fri, Jan 20, 2023, 8:53 PM UTC

jononomo wrote: post #772

spicymaki wrote: post #744

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A quick consultation with Dr. Google states caveats to what you are claiming (this is data from a carnivore advocate [1] btw.): you have to consume 2.2lbs of grass fed beef to get ~25mcg of Vitamin C. The daily recommended value is 75mg [almost double if you are pregnant] (you need 1000mcg to equal 1mg). The WHO recommends at least 45mg a day to prevent scurvy. 1 decently sized orange would cover the recommended dail…

There is a massive community of people who are only eating ribeye steaks. Many have been doing this for over ten years. They aren’t getting scurvy. So that’s the end of that story. And you don’t need to eat grass-finished beef (it has a worse flavor profile anyway). I’m sorry you can’t afford it.

> I’m sorry you can’t afford it.

I guess when you have nothing to stand on you throw insults. Don't bother trying to trigger me, I am totally secure.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#797

Post by belorn » Fri, Jan 20, 2023, 11:06 PM UTC

j-pb wrote: post #783

belorn wrote: post #692

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If meat is causing people to burn down the amazon, then don't eat meat produced from the Amazon. There is a reason why for example here in Sweden the price of imported beef from Brazil tend to be about half the price of locally produced beef. Local producers has to follow regulations and laws that Brazil producers do not. I will generally advise that people avoid buying any products from countries who has a history o…

I think you missed the bit where 77% of farmland is used for feed export. Your beef might be produced locally, but the feed for that beef, was produced on deforrested land.

While I don't expect a lot of feed is exported to Sweden, the same rule applies. Don't buy products which use imports from Brazil if those imports are created from burning down the Amazon. It would be the same as buying a locally produced shirt created from cotton that child labor picked (which was a scandal with a major Swedish clothing company).

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#798

Post by spoils19 » Fri, Jan 20, 2023, 11:15 PM UTC

purephase wrote: post #575

kup0 wrote: post #481

This editorialized link title and the article's headline itself doesn't really match the article's content (as is increasingly common it seems). Sure, Beyond Meat has had lower sales- but soon after they mention that retail sales of Impossible meat products increased 50% in 2022- with an odd "but the CEO left so they're in trouble" assessment which seems a bit bonkers. Then the author seems to say that because fake m…

The article is pushing a narrative. Every once and awhile these flair up, since there's a lot of scared people in the traditional meat/dairy industries right now, since they're losing counter/shelf space in supermarkets and menu options in restaurants all over the world. I'm not sure if the author has stepped into a grocery store recently, but they're entire aisles/half-aisles dedicated to just plant-based options no…

Agreed. We definitely have to be more careful these days about which articles are pushing narratives that are designed to enrage or delude us. A long time ago I read an article about how Canadian kids were struggling to adjust with COVID restrictions. But my friend had a 4 year old daughter in Ontario who ate outside when it was -20C. Why? It's shameful.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#799

Post by pvaldes » Fri, Jan 20, 2023, 11:20 PM UTC

idiotsecant wrote: post #706

noodlesUK wrote: post #674

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I’m just curious why you would eat 8-10 eggs daily? That seems like a very large number.

Because eggs are filling, relatively cheap, and pretty good for you. Especially if you have a body that doesn't do well with high-glycemic index foods and you don't want to eat animal meat.

meat = animal cells

egg = one animal cell

Technically the same thing

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#800

Post by pvaldes » Fri, Jan 20, 2023, 11:33 PM UTC

uhtred wrote: post #611

Swizec wrote: post #479

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Fake meat feels similar to my Slovenian eyes. There's a whole world of recipes that just don't include meat and are delicious. It wasn't until I moved to the USA that I even realized those are "vegetarian" ... to me they're just regular foods and recipes. Lots of cottage cheese hearty meals with high protein content. It helps that traditional (100+ years ago) Slovenian culture was that you rarely eat meat because mea…

> Sometimes I talk to my vegetarian friends and ask "If you want to be vegetarian, why don't you just eat natively vegetarian dishes? Why the fake meat?". So far no satisfying answer. c'mon, stop being deliberately ignorant.

> c'mon, stop being deliberately ignorant.

Attacking the messenger is a good example of unsatisfactory answer.

Is a legit question. Do you have something to say?