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Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

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Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#741

Post by tuatoru »

COGlory wrote: post #506
kup0 wrote: post #481

This editorialized link title and the article's headline itself doesn't really match the article's content (as is increasingly common it seems). Sure, Beyond Meat has had lower sales- but soon after they mention that retail sales of Impossible meat products increased 50% in 2022- with an odd "but the CEO left so they're in trouble" assessment which seems a bit bonkers. Then the author seems to say that because fake m…

The fundamental problem is that everyone has a different reason for wanting plant-based meat/fake meat. So by any particular metric, they have failed. Some people want fake meat to be a 1:1 meat substitute because they love meat but can't eat it (allergies, cardiovascular, etc). Some people want cheaper meat because quality meat you can trust has grown too expensive. Some people want more vegan/vegetarian options bec…

I disagree - the fundamental problem with mass-market goods is the value proposition.

For a new product to replace an existing one, it has to be at least two of cheaper, better, and/or more convenient.

More convenient is out, and plant-based meat substitutes are neither cheaper nor better than meat. They need to be both.

(Better is a complex of attributes. Taste, texture, variety, tolerance of varied cooking and consumption patterns, keeping duration, side-effects of consumption (like nausea, feeling full, or fibres sticking in teeth), and in the long term, health effects, among them.)

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#743

Post by 2muchcoffeeman »

theshrike79 wrote: post #237
2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fake meat isn't just inferior to real meat. It's inferior to just plain old vegetables. It's a crazy product designed for a society with weird eating habits. They're not trying to cook the best vegetable dishes. They're not trying to cook dishes that use less meat. They're not trying to expand your palettes and reintroducing liver, sweetbreads or other weird cuts. All these "green" products convince you to not do the…

Fake meat isn't for vegans who want to eat meat-like products. It's supposed to be a gateway product that will eventually entice hardcore meat eaters to first try fake meat and then maybe dare to try a non-fake meat vegan product. The best vegan products aren't "meat thing but vegan", they're all just gateway stuff. The best vegan food is stuff you couldn't do with meat at all. Just look at Indian or Thai/Vietnamese…

It's supposed to be a gateway product that will eventually entice hardcore meat eaters to first try fake meat

I agree, but I don't think it's a gateway. They want to replace all those beef burgers with Impossible meat burgers. However things like Impossible meat, while very impressive, cost more than the real thing and don't taste right. It's the uncanny valley of meat.

The best vegan food is stuff you couldn't do with meat at all. Just look at Indian or Thai/Vietnamese cuisine.

That's my point. There's plenty of good meat free or meat reduced food. But we're not running campaigns to encourage less meat consumption or promoting the cuisines of other cultures. Instead they created a company to make and sell hyper realistic fake meat. If you were really concerned about your meat consumption and it's impact on the environment, you'd just eat less meat. It's 100% actionable without these companies and tastes better.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#744

Post by spicymaki »

jononomo wrote: post #707
spicymaki wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if all-beef cured every disease know to man it still would not be sustainable. Curiously: how do you get your vitamin C?

Fresh meat contains vitamin C. Also, vitamin C is needed for the synthesis of collagen and an all-beef diet contains a lot of collagen. Scurvy is only a problem for people like sailors in the old days who did not have access to fresh meat on extremely long voyages. Finally, consider the fact that human beings have lived in northern climates through ice ages that lasted a thousand years.

A quick consultation with Dr. Google states caveats to what you are claiming (this is data from a carnivore advocate [1] btw.): you have to consume 2.2lbs of grass fed beef to get ~25mcg of Vitamin C. The daily recommended value is 75mg [almost double if you are pregnant] (you need 1000mcg to equal 1mg). The WHO recommends at least 45mg a day to prevent scurvy. 1 decently sized orange would cover the recommended daily value. Beef seems woefully inadequate to me at least.

The next fascinating question: how much does 2.2 lbs of grass fed beef cost? Just looking at the prices for fresh organic steak is almost $40 per pound at my local supermarket. That is an amazingly expensive diet! Imagine feeding a family of four on that! That is almost $400 per day, $2800 per week, $146,000 a year in just food costs. Yikes!

[1] https://www.doctorkiltz.com/vitamin-c-on-carnivore-diet/

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#745

Post by georgeplusplus »

WrtCdEvrydy wrote: post #585
fineIllregister wrote: post #545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're repeating the same all-or-nothing reasoning. For many people looking for a substitute, it is close enough. For many vegans, it is an option they like. It doesn't to be every single person eating it at every meal for it to be successful. Other vegetarian protein patty substitutes have done just fine for decades selling to customers who want it. Why does Impossible have to eliminate meat altogether in order to s…

Because profits must go up. Anything else is a failure.

Your kind should just start calling it the P-word given how evil you think this term is.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#746

Post by yunwal »

dubcanada wrote: post #137

I’d feel better if the ingredients list wasn’t as long as my arm. I know it’s a bunch of stuff to make it look like meat, but it’s basically cow meat vs a burger containing 50 random items and chemicals that is worse or equal in nutritional content then cow. Like one impossible vs cow is 14g of fat vs 16g of fat. 370mg of sodium vs 90mg of sodium. They are not even that much better for you. Rather than trying to get…

I feel so much better knowing my burger is 50% antibiotics.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#747

Post by yunwal »

alphanullmeric wrote: post #730
theshrike79 wrote: post #714

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American or European? European fries are potato, oil, salt.

And since potatos are healthy, and vegans believe seed oils are healthy, surely their sum (potato fries) must also be healthy, correct?

Potatoes are healthy is not a take I see often.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#748

Post by orange_fritter »

joshvm wrote: post #607
kup0 wrote: post #481

This editorialized link title and the article's headline itself doesn't really match the article's content (as is increasingly common it seems). Sure, Beyond Meat has had lower sales- but soon after they mention that retail sales of Impossible meat products increased 50% in 2022- with an odd "but the CEO left so they're in trouble" assessment which seems a bit bonkers. Then the author seems to say that because fake m…

A friend and I did a (literal) blind taste test with impossible/USDA organic beef/beyond. I was excited to do this as we don't get Impossible in Europe. We baked our own buns etc, cooked to temp with a probe, got some nice cheese on top good stuff. We also did a blind tests of the proteins on their own, and in a plain burger. Neither of us had any trouble picking out which product was which, but it was really interes…

Something insidious that happened to a lot of customers with Impossible, and I actually think this is a "good" thing for those who were omnivorous-- Burger King(One of the largest fast food chains in America) was cooking Impossible Burgers in the same grease as real meat. People were saying "Wow Impossible tastes just like beef, maybe better!"

I think this kind of transition, while somewhat deceptive, is great because it opens people's minds to the idea of a plant burger. Later on, you can eliminate the beef grease and the same people will continue enjoying Impossible Burgers because their palate has become more receptive. Then perhaps they might be open to other vegetarian options that are less oriented toward animal meat. I think these kind of gradual behavior changes are quite powerful where beating someone over the head with tofu and chickpeas fails.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#749

Post by Semaphor »

onli wrote: post #527
Semaphor wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Letztlich wird das der Verbraucher entscheiden. Vorstellen können wir uns alles. which is far better translated to > In the end, the consumer will decide. We can imagine [doing] anything. Which is extremely noncommittal (and also the only thing that makes sense)

No, this was extreme. When that interview came out it was completely astonishing to read that this option is in play at all for such a traditional meat processor. Other companies would have talked about their tradition and old strengths they should not give up, and said something like "we expect there to always be a market for our high quality meat products". But he opted for a different route. > (and also the only t…

> When that interview came out it was completely astonishing to read that this option is in play at all for such a traditional meat processor.

The meat producer who had already been dominating the vegan refrigerators… It’s not as if their prediction of 40% for the next year came out of nowhere.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#750

Post by wyre »

jasonmclaren wrote: post #722
exolymph wrote: post #716

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if nicotine didn't have the specter of cigarettes hanging behind it, I'd imagine it could be quite a large market. It drives me a little bit crazy that people think nicotine itself is what's harmful about cigarettes. The myth is slowly eroding but the common knowledge about nicotine — aside from the reality that it is addictive — remains directionally wrong (as common knowledge often is).

Can you elaborate? My understanding is that nicotine raises blood pressure, which is a big part of what's harmful about cigarettes.

What’s harmful is the inhalation of the thousands of chemicals into your lungs from a burning cigarette.

Nicotine could be considered bad because its addictive qualities make smoking happen more frequently, but rising blood pressure is a small piece.

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