My local grocery is constantly out of https://www.morningstarfarms.com/en_US/products/chikn/mornin...
They restock and it’s gone in a week or two.
Contrast that beyond meat, impossible burger, and other pricey options which never budge.
Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop
681–690 of 813 posts
Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop
#682Earlier quoted context omitted.
> As I explained in my statement, cows are finished at factory farms No. They live there from birth to death. A factory farm is not a slaughterhouse. You seem to mistake them for it. https://thehumaneleague.org/article/factory-farmed-cows > At no point did I claim anything about how cows don’t consume a massive amount of grain. You actually did. You said in repeated comments to me and others that in the west the cows…
> They live there from birth to death. Citation needed, no where in your source does it substantiate your claim that cows are reared on factory farms, where they subsequently live out their lives. > You actually did. You said in repeated comments to me and others that in the west the cows consume grass. Because they do feed on grass . Look I get it, you clearly care about animal welfare, which is a good thing, but I…
> Citation needed, no where in your source
Factory farming is the same everywhere. Here's another citation.
https://www.aspca.org/protecting-farm-animals/problem-factor....
Another.
https://thehumaneleague.org/article/what-is-factory-farming
Another.
https://sentientmedia.org/factory-farms/
Another extensive one with more references inside.
https://animalequality.org/blog/2022/10/14/factory-farming-f...
> Because they do feed on grass. Look I get it, you clearly care about animal welfare... however, untrue to say that cows spend their entire lives in CAFOs.
That's the old world.
You seem to have adopted a better 'factory farming' in your mind than what actually exists, in which you somehow combine old ma & pa small farms with 'some factories'.
That doesn't exist anymore. Some stragglers existing in this or that particular state and still fighting 'the man' does not a reality make. There is no competing with the cattle sector that takes in ~$40 bn subsidies and employs factory farms. That is now the reality of cattle farming in the Angloamerican West. And its a major source of conflict in between the Eu and the US because the Eu does not permit the same to be done in Europe.
And you miss the elephant in the room: Even if the cattle was 'first grass fed then shipped to factory farms to fatten' like you argue, the factory farming consuming ~70% of the grain in the US at that point would STILL make my argument. That's bad. That's inefficient. There is no defending it, even if your argument was true.
This is a long topic, and I have no interest in fighting the inaccurate but more humane perception that you have adopted. The references I provided should be more than enough to get to the bottom of this if you are interested. Good afternoon.
Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop
#683If any of the planet saving meat substitute promises are true, such a fake meat patty would cost a tenth of the beef equivalent and it would dominate the market. I read somewhere you would need 25 kg of feed to produce 1 kg of beef, ergo one could potentially produce 25 times the amount of substitute. Obviously that isn't true and such a patty is a specialized product of various highly processed plant matter. It is a…
US livestock subsidies are in dozens of billions. Whole sector seems to have revenue in lower hundreds of billions (harder to get exact data, please correct me). Even without premiums target audience is willing to accept, subsidies of 10-20% of sector revenue are pretty hard to beat.
From the first google search on US farmland subsidies:
" Who Benefits Most From Farm Subsidies?
Farm subsidies don't benefit all farms equally. According to the Cato Institute, farmers of corn, soybeans, and wheat receive more than 70% of farm subsidies. These are also usually the largest farms.
From an other source:
"Corn growers received the most product-specific assistance with $2.2 billion in subsidies. That was only about 4.4% of the $50.4 billion in total corn production that year. Soybeans rank second in subsidies. While the US soybean industry produced $41.3 billion worth of products in 2017, it received $1.6 billion in subsidies in 2016, representing 3.9% of production.
The US sugar industry produced $2.5 billion worth of product in 2017 and received $1.6 billion in subsidies, according to the report. The support amounted to 63.5% of the value of total production."
- https://www.thoughtco.com/us-farm-subsidies-3325162
- https://usafacts.org/articles/federal-farm-subsidies-what-da...
Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop
#684Earlier quoted context omitted.
A friend and I did a (literal) blind taste test with impossible/USDA organic beef/beyond. I was excited to do this as we don't get Impossible in Europe. We baked our own buns etc, cooked to temp with a probe, got some nice cheese on top good stuff. We also did a blind tests of the proteins on their own, and in a plain burger. Neither of us had any trouble picking out which product was which, but it was really interes…
> In Switzerland meat is expensive. Organic ground/minced beef from Farmy is something like $15-20/lb. Organic chicken breast is $50/lb (around $15/breast). That's insane. I'm in the USA and I can get organic ground beef for under $7/lb. Organic chicken breast for $8/lb. Both can be even lower if I buy in bulk. If you don't care about it being organic, then both of them get to $3/lb.
The only places on Earth where beef is as or more expensive are Hong Kong and Korea. It's a steep drop off from those three.
Food prices in general are higher in Switzerland (1.6x EU in 2020), but meat is exceptionally expensive (2.3x EU). This affects both organic and non-organic stock. Most of the margins on both are to retailers.[1]
> The system only works because Switzerland is a member of the European Free Trade Association (EFTA), but not part of the European Economic Area. It can therefore easily isolate itself from the EU internal market and protect domestic products from foreign competition.
> "Switzerland doesn't get flooded with cheap meat from Germany. That's a huge advantage for Swiss farmers," says Martin Rufer.
> Anyone entering Switzerland may import a maximum of 1 kilogram of meat or meat products per person. Anything above that will get extremely expensive because of the high customs duties.
1: https://www.dw.com/en/switzerland-meat-animals-farmers/a-545...
Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop
#685My local grocery is constantly out of https://www.morningstarfarms.com/en_US/products/chikn/mornin... They restock and it’s gone in a week or two. Contrast that beyond meat, impossible burger, and other pricey options which never budge.
I recently saw Beyond sausage on BOGO sale at Safeway. I’ve never bought it before, but between that discount and a general meat coupon (which interestingly applied to meat substitutes), it was a decent deal. Haven’t tried it yet but interested to see if it could be a worthwhile purchase at this lower price level.
Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop
#686Earlier quoted context omitted.
Exactly. Most burger chains don't use high quality meat for their burgers. You go to McDonald's, Burger King, or whatever and you are getting a greasy grey slab of ground "meat" (let's not think to long about where that comes from) that is 1) very thin 2) a bit rubbery 3) not that tasty 4) has some filler content in addition to meat and fat. To cover that up, most burger chains use lots of sauce, salt, and spices. It…
Does anyone remember the "pink slime" taco bell scandal? Their beef was less than 20% recognizable ground beef.
"Pink Slime" was about a picture of a pink substance being extruded that people claimed was chicken nugget paste.
I never understand when people get riled up about that kind of stuff. What do you THINK ground up meat looks like?
Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop
#687Earlier quoted context omitted.
A friend and I did a (literal) blind taste test with impossible/USDA organic beef/beyond. I was excited to do this as we don't get Impossible in Europe. We baked our own buns etc, cooked to temp with a probe, got some nice cheese on top good stuff. We also did a blind tests of the proteins on their own, and in a plain burger. Neither of us had any trouble picking out which product was which, but it was really interes…
Is there non-organic meat in Switzerland? For fresh, organic, skinless, boneless chicken breast you can pay $27/lbs in the US at an upscale store. Or skin-on non-organic at Walmart for under $3. I have no frame of reference for if that is the beast chicken you can get from a fancy grocery store or the standard chicken from a standard store. Your eggs seem to be about 50% higher than US eggs right now. Which seems to…
> A random sample from this summer (2020) shows a kilogram of ham from conventional animal husbandry cost an average of 23 francs (21 euros), whereas a kilogram of organic ham cost 51 francs (47 euros) — more than twice as much.
https://www.dw.com/en/switzerland-meat-animals-farmers/a-545...
Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop
#688This editorialized link title and the article's headline itself doesn't really match the article's content (as is increasingly common it seems). Sure, Beyond Meat has had lower sales- but soon after they mention that retail sales of Impossible meat products increased 50% in 2022- with an odd "but the CEO left so they're in trouble" assessment which seems a bit bonkers. Then the author seems to say that because fake m…
A friend and I did a (literal) blind taste test with impossible/USDA organic beef/beyond. I was excited to do this as we don't get Impossible in Europe. We baked our own buns etc, cooked to temp with a probe, got some nice cheese on top good stuff. We also did a blind tests of the proteins on their own, and in a plain burger. Neither of us had any trouble picking out which product was which, but it was really interes…
Where are you shopping? It’s not even close to that at migros.
Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop
#689Earlier quoted context omitted.
We also massively subsidise plant based food production. And non-food production like tobacco...
It's about a 10:1 ratio in favor of livestock, last time I checked the EU CAP.
Does that consider corn subsidies a beef subsidy? America would be subsidizing corn production whether or not beef existed. The corn belt is VERY politically powerful, and america values having a basic food industry that is impossible to blockade in wartime.
If beef producers stop needing that corn, we will just find more corn syrup and ethanol in random places.
Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop
#690Maybe unpopular opinion, but for me, best plant based patties are those that do not try to replicate meat taste. I much prefer patties made from actual plants&vegetables/mushrooms/chickpeas/beans like potato, carrot, some spices and so on. They have like actual 'natural' flavor, almost like something homemade. Those that add a ton of additives often taste awful, even beyond/moving mountains...
You can do up a portobello burger in a thousand different ways and they all taste amazing. I do not understand the fascination with replicating meat for environmental good when nature herself provides plenty of delicious alternatives. Ever had a deep-fried cheese-stuffed portobello? Mama mia...
I want a burger, I don't want a mushroom sandwich. How is that so hard to understand? When I want mushrooms I will eat mushrooms. If random replacement was a viable alternative, I would just eat a fish sandwich.