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Nationwide FAA weather reporting outage

nco.ncep.noaa.gov

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Re: Nationwide FAA weather reporting outage

#31

Post by ceejayoz »

SamPatt wrote: post #15

Serious question: At what point does the failure of government services warrant the partial withholding of taxes? This isn't sufficient of course but when the FAA repeatedly demonstrates incompetence, when do we eventually just tell them no, you can't have any more of my money, you're obviously wasting it and making us worse off?

If we didn't get to withhold for the decades of bipartisanly meandering Iraq and Afghan war strategies, we definitely don't get to do it for a brief outage of the FAA's weather reporting system.

Especially when evaluating the FAA would need to include the absolutely stellar commercial aviation safety record they and the NTSB have created over the last few decades.

Re: Nationwide FAA weather reporting outage

#32

Post by brookst »

shmatt wrote: post #25
SamPatt wrote: post #15

Serious question: At what point does the failure of government services warrant the partial withholding of taxes? This isn't sufficient of course but when the FAA repeatedly demonstrates incompetence, when do we eventually just tell them no, you can't have any more of my money, you're obviously wasting it and making us worse off?

This is the conservative playbook. Cut funding until the entity can't run properly, then yell JEEZ GUYS YOU REALLY SUCK wHY DON'T WE SHUT YOU DOWN The previous president significantly cut the FAA's budget, maybe we're just seeing now how that affects us in the long term

Aka the “I’m going to break all my toys to force mommy to buy me new ones I like better” mentality, projected into chronological adulthood.

Re: Nationwide FAA weather reporting outage

#33

Post by geocrasher »

chasd00 wrote: post #3

[flagged]

I'm sorry, but "looking out the window" has been obsolete for thousands of years. What aviators really need to use is the Weather Rock [1] and its associated documentation.

   If the rock is wet, it's raining.
   If the rock is swinging, the wind is blowing.
   If the rock casts a shadow, the sun is shining.
   If the rock does not cast a shadow and is not wet, the sky is cloudy.
   If the rock is difficult to see, it is foggy.
   If the rock is white, it is snowing.  
   If the rock is coated with ice, there is a frost.  
   If the ice is thick, it's a heavy frost.
   If the rock is bouncing, there is an earthquake.
   If the rock is under water, there is a flood.
   If the rock is warm, it is sunny.
   If the rock is missing, there was a tornado.
   If the rock is wet and swinging violently, there is a  hurricane.
   If the rock can be felt but not seen, it is night time.
   If the rock has white splats on it, watch out for birds.
   If there are two rocks, stop drinking, you are drunk.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_rock

Re: Nationwide FAA weather reporting outage

#35

Post by drstewart »

shmatt wrote: post #25
SamPatt wrote: post #15

Serious question: At what point does the failure of government services warrant the partial withholding of taxes? This isn't sufficient of course but when the FAA repeatedly demonstrates incompetence, when do we eventually just tell them no, you can't have any more of my money, you're obviously wasting it and making us worse off?

This is the conservative playbook. Cut funding until the entity can't run properly, then yell JEEZ GUYS YOU REALLY SUCK wHY DON'T WE SHUT YOU DOWN The previous president significantly cut the FAA's budget, maybe we're just seeing now how that affects us in the long term

Presidents don't pass budgets, Congress does.

There's a neat trick people do nowadays where people claim anything that's unsuccessful (usually government related) was either "sabotaged" or "set up to fail" as a way of absolving them of any failures. Literally impossible to criticize.

Finally, the FAA's budget was $23 billion this year and $28 billion last year due to pandemic / infra surpluses, nearly double what it was the last 4 years, where it remained flat (not cut as you say). So it's funny how 2 years of double funding can't get it back on track, but flat funding has caused it to fall apart in the same time period.

Re: Nationwide FAA weather reporting outage

#36

Post by drstewart »

michaelmcdonald wrote: post #20
SamPatt wrote: post #15

Serious question: At what point does the failure of government services warrant the partial withholding of taxes? This isn't sufficient of course but when the FAA repeatedly demonstrates incompetence, when do we eventually just tell them no, you can't have any more of my money, you're obviously wasting it and making us worse off?

Is it them wasting money, or do they have a constrained budget with an ever growing number of responsibilities and scope? Do you think there are fewer planes in the air now then 30 years ago? 10 years ago?

>Is it them wasting money, or do they have a constrained budget with an ever growing number of responsibilities and scope?

Wow, it could be. Can you share the FAA's budget this year compared to 2019 so we can see how it's been constrained?

Re: Nationwide FAA weather reporting outage

#37

Post by drstewart »

ck2 wrote: post #24
SamPatt wrote: post #15

Serious question: At what point does the failure of government services warrant the partial withholding of taxes? This isn't sufficient of course but when the FAA repeatedly demonstrates incompetence, when do we eventually just tell them no, you can't have any more of my money, you're obviously wasting it and making us worse off?

Just swap civil services budget with military budget. Imagine what NASA would do in ten years with Pentagon's budget swapped.

Done.

NASA's budget is now $0 though, since the military budget all went to Medicare with nothing left to spare for anything else. Along with the FAA and every other government department.

Re: Nationwide FAA weather reporting outage

#38

Post by bee_rider »

jcutrell wrote: post #10
chasd00 wrote: post #3

[flagged]

Things I use as a pilot of a single engine piston: - Temp dew point spread - Barometric pressure - TAF / forecast - Wind shear - Freezing level - Cloud tops - Cloud level AGL - visibility measured in actual distance All of these things can’t be measured easily by a human. Visibility is probably the easiest, but can you tell me what the dew point is easily? If I use it, imagine the critical importance for airliners.

I’m very much willing to believe you when you say you can do it practically, but there’s something logically or epistemically funny about measuring visibility using vision.

Re: Nationwide FAA weather reporting outage

#39

Post by bee_rider »

brootstrap wrote: post #13
jcutrell wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Things I use as a pilot of a single engine piston: - Temp dew point spread - Barometric pressure - TAF / forecast - Wind shear - Freezing level - Cloud tops - Cloud level AGL - visibility measured in actual distance All of these things can’t be measured easily by a human. Visibility is probably the easiest, but can you tell me what the dew point is easily? If I use it, imagine the critical importance for airliners.

Wind shear is easy. feel the wind on your face, then jump as high as possible and feel the wind up there.

Oh, so that’s what turbulence is.

Re: Nationwide FAA weather reporting outage

#40

Post by teeray »

zackbloom wrote: post #12

Unlike the NOTAM outage, a METAR outage will and should actually affect flights. Without weather at your destination it becomes impossible to know if it’s safe to land there. The forecasts (TAF) are actually used more in flight planning, but actual weather is very valuable while enroute, when not close enough to hear weather over the radio from the destination airport.

Unrelated to aviation, but I actually find METARs and TAFs are useful for hiking and skiing. I use the altimeter settings for my altimeter when hiking, and knowing the altitude of cloud layers is useful to know what the visibility will be like on the mountain (you have to do a bit of math with the airport elevation and the mountain’s elevation, but hey—it works!).
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