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Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

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Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#311

Post by pclmulqdq »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #58
legitster wrote: post #19

It's the cost. We are meat-eaters and have been trying lots of plant-based products. I was never sold as them being health products, but I liked the (presumed) environmental benefits. Plus, I could make a single meal for me and my Vegan friends. Plant-based meats were supposed to be cheaper. But it never happened. So now we've mostly moved back to normal meat products. (It doesn't help that my vegan friends never sto…

Exactly. Most burger chains don't use high quality meat for their burgers. You go to McDonald's, Burger King, or whatever and you are getting a greasy grey slab of ground "meat" (let's not think to long about where that comes from) that is 1) very thin 2) a bit rubbery 3) not that tasty 4) has some filler content in addition to meat and fat. To cover that up, most burger chains use lots of sauce, salt, and spices. It…

Does anyone remember the "pink slime" taco bell scandal? Their beef was less than 20% recognizable ground beef.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#312

Post by prepend »

nodding_smiling wrote: post #178
dubcanada wrote: post #137

I’d feel better if the ingredients list wasn’t as long as my arm. I know it’s a bunch of stuff to make it look like meat, but it’s basically cow meat vs a burger containing 50 random items and chemicals that is worse or equal in nutritional content then cow. Like one impossible vs cow is 14g of fat vs 16g of fat. 370mg of sodium vs 90mg of sodium. They are not even that much better for you. Rather than trying to get…

As I understand it, most of the ingredients are just extracts from or purifications of natural products. I'm not just saying this to defend plant-based meats - it's true of many chemicals with scary-looking names in other foods. "Calcium pantothenate", for instance, is just a salt of the essential vitamin B5. "Ascorbic acid" is vitamin C. And so on. And it's worth bearing in mind that the ingredients list of a steak…

Here’s the ingredient list for a beyond burger [0], I don’t think your point is relevant, as while the ingredient aren’t necessarily scary, there are many of them and the product is highly processed.

“Water, pea protein, expeller-pressed canola oil, refined coconut oil, rice protein, natural flavors, dried yeast, cocoa butter, methylcellulose, and less than 1% of potato starch, salt, potassium chloride, beet juice color, apple extract, pomegranate concentrate, sunflower lecithin, vinegar, lemon juice concentrate, vitamins and minerals (zinc sulfate, niacinamide [vitamin B3], pyridoxine hydrochloride [vitamin B6], cyanocobalamin [vitamin B12], calcium pantothenate).

Peas are legumes. People with severe allergies to legumes like peanuts should be cautious when introducing pea protein into their diet because of the possibility of a pea allergy. Contains no peanuts or tree nuts.”

[0] https://www.beyondmeat.com/en-US/products/the-beyond-burger

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#314

Post by dubcanada »

chimprich wrote: post #181
dubcanada wrote: post #137

I’d feel better if the ingredients list wasn’t as long as my arm. I know it’s a bunch of stuff to make it look like meat, but it’s basically cow meat vs a burger containing 50 random items and chemicals that is worse or equal in nutritional content then cow. Like one impossible vs cow is 14g of fat vs 16g of fat. 370mg of sodium vs 90mg of sodium. They are not even that much better for you. Rather than trying to get…

> I’d feel better if the ingredients list wasn’t as long as my arm. If you listed the "ingredients" in a cow, you'd also have a list that was as long as the proverbial limb. Proteins, fats, sugars, enzymes, hormones, antibiotics (quite likely with factory farming), microorganisms... it's just our labelling laws that mean they get to be lumped together as "meat". They're still chemicals assembled by organic nanotech.…

I am certainly not saying red meat is good, I don't eat red meat. I'm just saying that the whole make a plant burger like a meat burger and bam climate change solved is not going to work. Advertising it as a meat burger won't either, cause it's not. And that just makes meat lovers angry.

It would be better to focus on making veggie burgers better. Not making a terrible copy of cow.

> Slowly over generations is really not the approach we need for tackling climate change though.

I'm certainly not arguing that climate change does not need immediate action, and I am certainly not undermining that it has helped even a little bit. I hope that came across in my statement.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#315

Post by harel »

Moldoteck wrote: post #29

Maybe unpopular opinion, but for me, best plant based patties are those that do not try to replicate meat taste. I much prefer patties made from actual plants&vegetables/mushrooms/chickpeas/beans like potato, carrot, some spices and so on. They have like actual 'natural' flavor, almost like something homemade. Those that add a ton of additives often taste awful, even beyond/moving mountains...

That! I do not want meat substitute for my burger. I want a veggie burger. One that has it's own taste profile. If I want a meat burger I'll have a meat burger. Sell me something else with a sane list of ingredients and I'm there.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#316

Post by roland35 »

I think it should be clarified as a "flop" versus sky-high expectations. Plant-based options have exploded in the past few years, and not just for meats but dairy too.

I often get vegan options (lactose intolerant) and find it much easier to find a good option now than a few years ago.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#317

Post by onli »

jansan wrote: post #297
Semaphor wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your link doesn't support your statement. Where does it say they want to turn 100% plant based?

I have not found any news that would support that claim. They sold more vegan products in 2021 than meat products, but nowhere can I find anything that they aim at selling only vegan products.

Source is https://app.handelsblatt.com/unternehmen/mittelstand/ruegenw..., a "we would if consumers choose that route".

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#318

Post by tpush »

raspberry1337 wrote: post #124
the-smug-one wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

What looks reasonable to you might not look reasonable to someone else, like someone that strives to avoid seed oils and other industrial products and live above 90 years of age.

Avoiding "seed oils" is a mania made up by internet grifters; if you cared about science you'd want to replace animal fats with (non-tropic) vegetable oils!

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#319

Post by diydsp »

raghavkukreti wrote: post #54
abliefern wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a misunderstanding. Fake meat products don't contain "a ton of additives".

Water, soy protein concentrate, coconut oil, sunflower oil, natural flavors, 2% or less of potato protein, methylcellulose, yeast extract, cultured dextrose, food starch modified, soy leghemoglobin, salt, mixed tocopherols (antioxidant), soy protein isolate, zinc gluconate, thiamine hydrochloride (vitamin B1), niacin, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), riboflavin (vitamin B2), and vitamin B12. This is the list of…

Almost all of those are protein and vitamins - good for you. Then there are some carbs. Not horrible.

Even sunflower oil gets a bad rap bc it's assoc w proc foods but it's fine just don't get it too hot or overconsume:

https://www.webmd.com/diet/sunflower-oil-good-for-you

Coconut oil's sat fat is highly contested and mixed. Very hard to untangle its effects but it seems to be nonlinear: A little seems okay.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#320

Post by koliber »

When my wife and I tried these meat alternatives -- a burger, and Dunkin' Donuts breakfast sausage -- our conclusion was that they have a real chance at replacing low quality meats.

If you've ever eaten good fresh sausage or a quality burger, you know how it differs from the fast-food burgers and breakfast sausages served at chain restaurants.

Beyond and Impossible will have a hard time competing agains the quality stuff. But compared to the lower-quality meats, they hold up just fine in terms of taste. As long as they can bring the price down, they'll do alright in the non-quality meat markets.

I predict that if they can get their unit economic down, they can sign deals with many mass-market restaurants and gradually use their non-meat as filler for real meat. Ratchet that up over time, don't tell anyone, and all of a sudden, everyone is eating less meat.

They are having a hard time convincing the world that their product tastes better and is healthier than meat. They won't have as hard of a time convincing the world that their product taste better and is healthier than currently-used meat fillers at mass-market outlets. But that just does not sound like an exciting business plan for a VC founded California company, so unless the ego steps aside, it will be a hard win.

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