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Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

bloomberg.com

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Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#281

Post by pclmulqdq »

bennettdams wrote: post #210
samuli wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

86% of feed is grown on land [1], which is not suitable for growing human food crops. [1]: https://www.agfoundation.org/common-questions/view/could-mor...

You're quoting a literal farming foundation, so here is a neutral source: https://ourworldindata.org/land-use#half-of-the-world-s-habi... "If we combine pastures used for grazing with land used to grow crops for animal feed, livestock accounts for 77% of global farming land. Of all the land we use for agriculture, 77% of it is used for livestock." These 77% are only responsible for 18% of the produced calories and 37…

Nothing said here refutes the parent comment. It turns out that a lot of land is really shitty for growing stuff that isn't a weed (without adding a ton of chemicals to the environment), and humans don't eat weeds. Cows, sheep, pigs, and chicken do.

I doubt that 86% of that 77% is truly unsuitable for farming human food, but I wouldn't be surprised if 30-50% of it was.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#282

Post by whazor »

myspy wrote: post #248
rob74 wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm from Germany, and I can confirm that the number of vegan alternatives to any imaginable animal product have increased sharply both in quantity and quality over the last years, to the point that you can get good vegan alternatives at discount supermarkets now. Even in the US, I wonder if what Bloomberg is calling a "flop" is a real flop or just some companies falling short of their over-ambitious forecasts (or the…

Aldi has a great chicken replacement and the meatballs packaged with a pack of ketchup are excellent. I would wish for them to be available in a larger version without the ketchup. Another problem I have with all of this is the plastic packaging for everything. Getting something like that at a veggie butcher would be cool.

In a podcast I heard that The Vegetarian Butcher initially had experimental biological degradable packaging, but after buying hundreds of thousands they all went bad, and had to be thrown out. Now they use plastic packaging and they only try to solve one problem at a time.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#283

Post by Frost1x »

Moldoteck wrote: post #29

Maybe unpopular opinion, but for me, best plant based patties are those that do not try to replicate meat taste. I much prefer patties made from actual plants&vegetables/mushrooms/chickpeas/beans like potato, carrot, some spices and so on. They have like actual 'natural' flavor, almost like something homemade. Those that add a ton of additives often taste awful, even beyond/moving mountains...

I share the same opinion. With plant based meats you're trying to fit a round peg through a square hole. It just isn't meat and doesn't get close enough for me. I would much prefer a good well prepared and thought out vegetarian style dish full of flavor. Maybe it's possible with more time and effort to get close enough but it's not there for me.

The issue in the West is that we have fairly limited time and experience in preparing good vegetable dishes. Most are traditionally quite bland and off putting (for me, at least). Don't get me wrong some are quite good but usually as sides and very rarely can I visit some random person or resturaunt and expect a decently prepared vegetable dish compared to a meat dish.

In contrast, when I eat at Indian resturaunts, it's not uncommon that I prefer some vegetarian dishes over ithers. I don't even feel "cheated" like I often do with poorly made vegetarian dishes because the food is usually quite satisfying and flavorful.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#284

Post by moby_click »

auggierose wrote: post #238
yreg wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems that they don't plan to "turn 100% plant based", but rather built a new factory that is 100% plant based. The ≤5% estimate is just as inaccurate though. > “Over the full year [2021], we sold for the first time more of our vegan and vegetarian products than of the classic meat products. Last year, the ratio had been fifty-fifty,” the spokesperson added, without giving detailed figures. https://www.just-food.c…

> The ≤5% estimate is just as inaccurate though. Well, render me extremely surprised! I am wondering if that is because the population as a whole goes vegan/vegetarian (which I doubt), or if they are one of the few producers offering a wide range for vegetarians, and so they get all the vegetarians as customers.

The marketing director that started the meatless program said "The [meat] sausage will become the cigarette of the future". Sales were stagnating or declining. Sales in the meatless segment were low but increasing steadily and they entered that segment, convinced, that they could produce alternatives with broader appeal. For one year, they spent all their advertisment budget on the new meatless line.

Initially the target group was "reducers". The first products included a lot of egg protein, so vegans were not targeted at all. Somewhat surprisingly, they decided to launch the new line under their well-known and established brand. That probably prevented some marketing claims that may have been off-puting to their existing customers.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#285

Post by audunw »

hef19898 wrote: post #242
tduberne wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wanted to say the same thing. Here i Germany the choice of vegan sausage and cold cuts is huge, even in small grocery shops. I know lot of people who eat meat regularly _and_ buy the vegan alternatives on a regular basis.

Which totally puzzles me. Nothing wrong with a vegetarian diet, but would I prefer processed food, vegan or otherwise, over unprocessed one?

I think the whole "processed" vs "unprocessed" food label is too imprecise to say anything about whether it's healthy or not. I don't think there's anything that implies that processed foods have to be unhealthy. It's just that most processed food tend to be less healthy.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#286

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0 »

OJFord wrote: post #274
taylorius wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a bit of a flop in the UK too tbh. It's been pushed fairly hard, but not that much uptake.

It's a flop for me because of the 'plant-based' marketing. I make my own burgers with jackfruit or chickpeas and things quite often, but I call them what they are, not 'plant-based', which is about as appetising to me as 'meat-based'. (What's the meat?! Surprise mix of whatever was going cheapest plus horse?).

The whole thing is reminiscent of Simpsons marketing joke:

"It has over 60 ingredients!"

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#287

Post by tpush »

hef19898 wrote: post #242
tduberne wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wanted to say the same thing. Here i Germany the choice of vegan sausage and cold cuts is huge, even in small grocery shops. I know lot of people who eat meat regularly _and_ buy the vegan alternatives on a regular basis.

Which totally puzzles me. Nothing wrong with a vegetarian diet, but would I prefer processed food, vegan or otherwise, over unprocessed one?

Meat sausages and cold cuts are processed as well. And are likely made with carcinogenic preservatives!

Edit: cancerous -> carcinogenic

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#288

Post by Insanity »

rob74 wrote: post #229
lampe3 wrote: post #161

Can we add an "in the US" at the end? Since for EU countries this is not true. I'm living in sweden now and lived in germany and poland. Plant-based meat products are growing in numbers and the price of meat is going so high that its cheaper to buy the plant-based one. In Germany one producer of meat sausages want to turn 100% plant based[1]. I will not go into the whats better and not for you. Since this highly depe…

I'm from Germany, and I can confirm that the number of vegan alternatives to any imaginable animal product have increased sharply both in quantity and quality over the last years, to the point that you can get good vegan alternatives at discount supermarkets now. Even in the US, I wonder if what Bloomberg is calling a "flop" is a real flop or just some companies falling short of their over-ambitious forecasts (or the…

In the EU the quality is good of the plant-based meats. In the US/Canada is it quite bad though.

Maybe it is the same situation for regular meat, can’t comment on that. But finding actually good tasting and healthy meat replacement here in Canada is a challenge.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#289

Post by kuschku »

avhception wrote: post #109
gernb wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

which one did you try? impossible burger was great for me. beyond, not so much

Not really sure, depends on who had a partnership with BurgerKing Germany.

In that case, you may have gotten actual beef. Burger King Germany recently had a scandal where it turned out for quite a while they didn't stock enough vegan patties and served regular beef patties while pretending they were vegan.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#290

Post by blowski »

tpush wrote: post #287
hef19898 wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which totally puzzles me. Nothing wrong with a vegetarian diet, but would I prefer processed food, vegan or otherwise, over unprocessed one?

Meat sausages and cold cuts are processed as well. And are likely made with carcinogenic preservatives! Edit: cancerous -> carcinogenic

Normally, but not always. I can get freshly produced sausages from my local butcher.
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