Stop calling it "meat", please. It's not. Meat grows on animal skeletons. Use terms like "reprocessed plant sludge", soysage, or shitpatty.
Do you feel the same about almond milk?
Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop
211–220 of 813 posts
Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop
#212I’d feel better if the ingredients list wasn’t as long as my arm. I know it’s a bunch of stuff to make it look like meat, but it’s basically cow meat vs a burger containing 50 random items and chemicals that is worse or equal in nutritional content then cow. Like one impossible vs cow is 14g of fat vs 16g of fat. 370mg of sodium vs 90mg of sodium. They are not even that much better for you. Rather than trying to get…
> I’d feel better if the ingredients list wasn’t as long as my arm
Cow meat has a long list of ingredients that aren't disclosed either: antibiotics, growth hormones, etc.
> They are not even that much better for you.
I don't think they're going for the health angle - this is junk food, just not from a live animal. No one is saying you can live off plant-based burgers exclusively, they're an indulgence, and they're aiming for the "close enough" crowd that doesn't mind indulgences.
> Just make the regular veggie burgers better and cheaper.
It'll be hard to compete in price until they reach a certain scale, and there's the whole point of livestock subsidies: https://farm.ewg.org/progdetail.php?fips=00000&progcode=live...
> You can’t just shove a fake meat product down a meat lovers throat and call them a bad name if they hate it.
Not sure where the shoving and name-calling is taking place, but there's actually good feedback from meat eaters for a lot of Beyond Meat products, for example.
Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop
#213Earlier quoted context omitted.
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What looks reasonable to you might not look reasonable to someone else, like someone that strives to avoid seed oils and other industrial products and live above 90 years of age.
Haha, do you believe that olive oil isn't made on a large ("industrial") scale? Or lard, or tallow, for that matter. Man, this is just more FUD, scientists aren't arguing about this, shitty fitness influencers are. But hey, I do hope that you live to 90 or above, cool goal. I just hope you don't waste too much time listening to Joe Rogan. I'm not gonna waste more of my precious (and I guess to you very short) life on this. For science based fitness advice I like Stronger by Science, but I've also heard that Barbell Medicine is good.
Cheers.
Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop
#214Earlier quoted context omitted.
And vegan alternatives are not? Meat was a luxury product not eaten every day for most of history and still is in most parts of the world. Given the environmental impact of Meat and Diary in terms of CO2, Methane, Water usage, and Deforestation we should heavily reconsider our nonchalant view of them as a cheap commodity.
> Meat was a luxury product not eaten every day for most of history And nobody want's to return to those dark ages. This devil's alliance between veganism and environmentalism is what put me off environmentalism. Climate change can be softened by banning airplanes, air conditioning, and other things we don't need, not by banning food.
> Climate change can be softened by banning airplanes, air conditioning, and other things we don't need, not by banning food.
you mean softened by removing things you dont use.
Look at the moment no one is banning meat. There is a reasonably amount of evidence to suggest that the kind of meat consumed and the volume might be the cause of various cancers. I'm not vegan, and like most people I really wish vegans weren't the noisy shouty face of environmentalism.
But, if you want change, people have to, well change. There are a few routes to that, one is price change (inflation is helping with that, stuff that requires a lot of energy to produce, ie feedlot meat and greenhouse based veg) are rising in price more than less refined or forced food stuffs.
Subsidies could be re-directed to different parts of the farming ecosystem (but that's politically challenging)
or you can outright ban things, but again thats also challenging.
Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop
#215I’d feel better if the ingredients list wasn’t as long as my arm. I know it’s a bunch of stuff to make it look like meat, but it’s basically cow meat vs a burger containing 50 random items and chemicals that is worse or equal in nutritional content then cow. Like one impossible vs cow is 14g of fat vs 16g of fat. 370mg of sodium vs 90mg of sodium. They are not even that much better for you. Rather than trying to get…
Vegan food: taste, healthy, filling - pick 2
Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop
#216Earlier quoted context omitted.
Crazy that the people who don't eat meat can't see the properties of meat that meat eaters like and look for. Why on earth would anyone listen to a vegetarian about what makes a good meat alternative. If a steak chef says an alternative to steak is X, I'll listen.
Most vegetarians were not born vegetarians, though. Some did recently eat meat so can compare. In my opinion, I don't think anything vegetarian will come close to a steak anytime soon, but I have eaten chili sin carne, without noticing it being vegetarian. My main problem is also simply, that I have not learned yet, to cook without meat very good. It takes effort, but is worth it.
Fable mushrooms are the closest thing to steak-like that I've ever had. It's even better than the fake meat steaks I've found in supermarkets. I was never a lover of mushrooms in the first place, but these don't even taste or feel like a traditional mushroom. It looks and feels more like steak.
Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop
#217Earlier quoted context omitted.
Crazy that the people who don't eat meat can't see the properties of meat that meat eaters like and look for. Why on earth would anyone listen to a vegetarian about what makes a good meat alternative. If a steak chef says an alternative to steak is X, I'll listen.
> Why on earth would anyone listen to a vegetarian about what makes a good meat alternative. Because most vegetarians have likely tried a lot more meat substitutes than a meat eater, and most of them have eaten meat at some point? It seems that any story about meat-eating brings out all the reactionary commenters and switches off critical thinking skills on HN.
True - but OTOH, most serious vegetarians haven't eaten any meat-based products in a long time. And after a long time of not eating meat, I can imagine that your preferences adjust and you actually think that the alternatives taste better than "real" meat? I mean, I only tried a vegetarian/vegan diet for a few weeks (thanks to my wife insisting we do it), and even after this short time, I started being slightly disgusted by products oozing with animal fat - especially when having to clean the frying pan after preparing some burgers...
Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop
#218Earlier quoted context omitted.
And vegan alternatives are not? Meat was a luxury product not eaten every day for most of history and still is in most parts of the world. Given the environmental impact of Meat and Diary in terms of CO2, Methane, Water usage, and Deforestation we should heavily reconsider our nonchalant view of them as a cheap commodity.
Same goes for vegetables. That being said, animal milk drinking is not something new at all. And in "traditional" setup, milk availability is massive improvement nutritionally/health wise over no milk.
> And in "traditional" setup, milk availability is massive improvement nutritionally/health wise over no milk.
only if you can process lactose. A large amount of people can't. Plus, "traditional" farming is highly dependent on location.
Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop
#219Earlier quoted context omitted.
US livestock subsidies are in dozens of billions. Whole sector seems to have revenue in lower hundreds of billions (harder to get exact data, please correct me). Even without premiums target audience is willing to accept, subsidies of 10-20% of sector revenue are pretty hard to beat.
Same in the E.U. we have billions of subsidies for milk and meat. Many countries like germany also have a tiered VAT system, where basic foods are taxed lower, there is a base line tax and some luxury items are taxed higher. Thanks to lobbying meat and cow-milk are taxed as basic foods, while vegan alternatives are taxed as luxury items.
That is not true. All food in the supermarket is taxed the same.
Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop
#220Artificial meat is a one take on the sustainability problem but a more pragmatic approach that will not solve it but make a big dent is to reduce meat consumption instead of replacing it. Sainsburys in the UK ran an advert at one point where e.g. add 50% red beans and 50% meat to your casserole. Have one vegan day per week etc. Imagine if we could reduce meat consumption by even 50% by just being more disciplined? It…
If sustainability is the goal then convinving people to switch from beef to fish and chicken is a lot easier. People don't have to go full vegetarian to make a big impact on reducing their greenhouse emissions. I feel like that's the most pragmatic approach right now. I think the view that the only sustainable option is the vegetarian one isn't helpful. Especially since, depending on your diet, a vegetarian diet is n…
The Lancet-EAT report puts some numbers on this:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planetary_health_diet
Basically reducing red meat, dairy and starchy vegetables is good for the planet and your health.
Vegan, vegetarian, pescatarian, flexitarian can all work though and anything in moderation is fine.