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Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

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Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#181

Post by chimprich »

dubcanada wrote: post #137

I’d feel better if the ingredients list wasn’t as long as my arm. I know it’s a bunch of stuff to make it look like meat, but it’s basically cow meat vs a burger containing 50 random items and chemicals that is worse or equal in nutritional content then cow. Like one impossible vs cow is 14g of fat vs 16g of fat. 370mg of sodium vs 90mg of sodium. They are not even that much better for you. Rather than trying to get…

> I’d feel better if the ingredients list wasn’t as long as my arm.

If you listed the "ingredients" in a cow, you'd also have a list that was as long as the proverbial limb. Proteins, fats, sugars, enzymes, hormones, antibiotics (quite likely with factory farming), microorganisms... it's just our labelling laws that mean they get to be lumped together as "meat". They're still chemicals assembled by organic nanotech.

We know some of them are bad. E.g. there's a link between red meat consumption and colorectal cancer, and nitrites in bacon etc. also increase cancer risk.

> Slowly and over generations it could change to be predominantly.

Slowly over generations is really not the approach we need for tackling climate change though.

> You can’t just shove a fake meat product down a meat lovers throat and call them a bad name if they hate it.

And I don't think anyone is doing that.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#183

Post by strken »

michaelteter wrote: post #149

And we don't need fake meat. It's just something that the food industry can make and sell to us instead of us just eating stuff that grows in the earth. If you want something with a texture similar to meat, many mushrooms will do the job. If you want something reminiscent of ground beef, quinoa with seasoning will suffice. However, limiting yourself to vegetarian approaches of recreating meat dishes, then you are mis…

As a consumer, I want a good vegan protein source that isn't carb-heavy and is easy to cook with, whether or not it's a fake meat. Something with the same macros as skinless chicken breast (75% balanced protein by calorie, 25% fat) would be perfect.

Tempeh is okay but fattier and closer to a steak. TVP is higher protein but has carbs instead of fats. Pea protein powder is perfect but I have no idea how to use large quantities of it in a solid meal.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#185

Post by shakesbeard »

virtualritz wrote: post #100

In Germany this is simply not true. All supermarket chains, at least in the cities, now have a considerate selection of plant based meat and it sells like bread. Yes, it is sadly more expensive than real meat for now. Still -- vegan burger patties are regularly sold out.

Same in Switzerland. The selection has grown considerably over the last years.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#186

Post by yreg »

pjmlp wrote: post #177
michaelteter wrote: post #149

And we don't need fake meat. It's just something that the food industry can make and sell to us instead of us just eating stuff that grows in the earth. If you want something with a texture similar to meat, many mushrooms will do the job. If you want something reminiscent of ground beef, quinoa with seasoning will suffice. However, limiting yourself to vegetarian approaches of recreating meat dishes, then you are mis…

Agreed, I am not vegetarian, but when I want to eat vegeatarian dishes the last thing I ever want to get is fake meat.

These are not supposed to substitute the vegetarian dishes you eat, but the meat dishes you eat.

It works for some people, e.g. me.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#187

Post by j-pb »

xdennis wrote: post #127
j-pb wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And vegan alternatives are not? Meat was a luxury product not eaten every day for most of history and still is in most parts of the world. Given the environmental impact of Meat and Diary in terms of CO2, Methane, Water usage, and Deforestation we should heavily reconsider our nonchalant view of them as a cheap commodity.

> Meat was a luxury product not eaten every day for most of history And nobody want's to return to those dark ages. This devil's alliance between veganism and environmentalism is what put me off environmentalism. Climate change can be softened by banning airplanes, air conditioning, and other things we don't need, not by banning food.

If you care about environmentalism then you should resonate with the fact that 68% of the Amazon is Burnt for pastures for Cattle Farming. 28% is Burnt for Agriculture, of which 60% is for soybeans, of which 77% are shipped overseas for livestock feed.

That means at least 80% is burned for livestock or livestock feed. Since part of the palm oil and other plant produced is also used for livestock feed that number probably closer to 85%.

See:

https://www.fern.org/fileadmin/uploads/fern/Documents/Fern%2...

Your proposed solutions simply don't add up. Air Travel makes up 2.5-3.5% of all GHG emissions, Air Conditioning makes up 3.94%. Livestock makes up a whopping 18%.

So even banning all air travel and air conditioning, would only give you the same reduction on GHG emissions as eating 40% less dairy and meat.

So cutting meat and dairy from your diet is one of the easiest ways to cut your CO2 footprint massively. And it's actually just a minor inconvenience once you get used to plant based cooking, calling vegan cooking "dark ages" is ridiculously overdramatic, considering that e.g. indian food is often vegan and delicious.

See:

https://www.fao.org/3/i3437e/i3437e.pdf

https://academic.oup.com/af/article/1/1/19/4638592

https://ourworldindata.org/co2-emissions-from-aviation

https://www.nrel.gov/news/press/2022/nrel-shows-impact-of-co....

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#188

Post by rat9988 »

sofixa wrote: post #172
litenboll wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 370mg of sodium vs 90mg of sodium. While I agree with your comment, this is very misleading unless you eat your steak raw and unsalted.

Does the cooking itself add sodium? Salting isn't mandatory, and there are tons of spices you can add if you want some extra taste that aren't salt (i know this might be anathema to some who think seasoning starts and stops with salt and maybe pepper but it's true, try it out!).

No amount of extra spices can replace salt.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#189

Post by donavanm »

strken wrote: post #183
michaelteter wrote: post #149

And we don't need fake meat. It's just something that the food industry can make and sell to us instead of us just eating stuff that grows in the earth. If you want something with a texture similar to meat, many mushrooms will do the job. If you want something reminiscent of ground beef, quinoa with seasoning will suffice. However, limiting yourself to vegetarian approaches of recreating meat dishes, then you are mis…

As a consumer, I want a good vegan protein source that isn't carb-heavy and is easy to cook with, whether or not it's a fake meat. Something with the same macros as skinless chicken breast (75% balanced protein by calorie, 25% fat) would be perfect. Tempeh is okay but fattier and closer to a steak. TVP is higher protein but has carbs instead of fats. Pea protein powder is perfect but I have no idea how to use large q…

As an fyi here in AU there are a handful of chicken facsimiles based on pea protein. Theyre “ok” to cook with, but tend to be a bit dry and lacking in binding agents in my experience. Not quite as good as the wheat gluten and soy products yet.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#190

Post by Findecanor »

dgb23 wrote: post #13
gloryjulio wrote: post #5

We already have cheap beans and tofu. Thanks

It’s also pretty easy to make burger patties out of black beans. Tastes great, is simple and you can throw in things you like, such as onions and garlic. Pretty sure it’s nutritious as well.

I too make my own patties most of the time, instead of ready-mase fake meat. Just mash whatever beans/tofu I have. Maybe some dry falafel mix. Half an egg and some potato starch will help with keeping it together. A splash of soy sauce for colour. Just make sure that the mixture does not get too wet.
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