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Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

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Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#81

Post by ben_w »

spaniard89277 wrote: post #17
scantis wrote: post #7

If any of the planet saving meat substitute promises are true, such a fake meat patty would cost a tenth of the beef equivalent and it would dominate the market. I read somewhere you would need 25 kg of feed to produce 1 kg of beef, ergo one could potentially produce 25 times the amount of substitute. Obviously that isn't true and such a patty is a specialized product of various highly processed plant matter. It is a…

Turns out beating nature is pretty hard. Cows look basically like processing plants. They produce food, fertilizer and energy (biogas).

After 5000 years of selective breeding, cows aren't that natural any more.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#82

Post by matsemann »

Reubend wrote: post #28
scantis wrote: post #7

If any of the planet saving meat substitute promises are true, such a fake meat patty would cost a tenth of the beef equivalent and it would dominate the market. I read somewhere you would need 25 kg of feed to produce 1 kg of beef, ergo one could potentially produce 25 times the amount of substitute. Obviously that isn't true and such a patty is a specialized product of various highly processed plant matter. It is a…

> it is no surprise, that people aren't willing to pay more for an inferior product You hit the nail on its head. I think there's still hope for meat substitutes if they can improve their flavor while also lowering their price. But I'm not holding out hope for that.

Mainly because of meat subsidies, though. They don't need to compete when governments all over the world hand them billions.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#83

Post by Nursie »

dvh wrote: post #80

[flagged]

> Nobody actually wants to eat artificial meat

I like it, I'm a meat eater with a vegetarian partner, it works great as a compromise for us, to use every so often (not every day).

Some vegetarians (my partner included) sometimes want food that tastes and has texture like dishes they used to eat as a meat eater. So it works great for them. For her it's bolognese-style pasta sauces, bacon, sandwich meats like pastrami and a few other things.

Artificial meat has a niche.

Was it going to change the whole world and revolutionise fucking everything? Well, no, that was overblown hype.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#84

Post by md_ »

dvh wrote: post #80

[flagged]

I don't follow. Why do meat eaters want vegans to eat this instead of soy meat?

I am mostly vegetarian, and I quite like Impossible Burgers. Sadly they're not really available in Europe.

They might be an idea with a small market. But in my mind this is a lot like if Silicon Valley got really pumped up about, like, unpasteurized cheeses or nutritional shakes. (Oh, wait, that last one happened.) The problem isn't with unpasteurized cheeses--there is a small but reasonable market for such things--but with Silicon Valley.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#85

Post by timeon »

j-pb wrote: post #41
Nowado wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US livestock subsidies are in dozens of billions. Whole sector seems to have revenue in lower hundreds of billions (harder to get exact data, please correct me). Even without premiums target audience is willing to accept, subsidies of 10-20% of sector revenue are pretty hard to beat.

Same in the E.U. we have billions of subsidies for milk and meat. Many countries like germany also have a tiered VAT system, where basic foods are taxed lower, there is a base line tax and some luxury items are taxed higher. Thanks to lobbying meat and cow-milk are taxed as basic foods, while vegan alternatives are taxed as luxury items.

We do not need fake meat. We just need to stop these subsidies and import tax on meat.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#86

Post by timeon »

jslql wrote: post #60
j-pb wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same in the E.U. we have billions of subsidies for milk and meat. Many countries like germany also have a tiered VAT system, where basic foods are taxed lower, there is a base line tax and some luxury items are taxed higher. Thanks to lobbying meat and cow-milk are taxed as basic foods, while vegan alternatives are taxed as luxury items.

Meat and milk are basic foods.

There is also lot of other food.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#87

Post by jjallen »

I love Impossible meat. Wish it was available in my EU country! Various brands of fake meat have been at Whole Foods for a long time now. Not sure things are failing.

Also I wonder how much of this negative sentiment is macroeconomic and tech-related? The stock prices of many tech/bio companies have come down. Is that what caused this article?

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#88

Post by timeon »

Scoundreller wrote: post #26
317070 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your story is true, it is remarkable it is not universally true. E.g. in the Netherlands the prices are more competitive, and sometimes even turned. [0] The vegetarian equivalent has been cheaper there than the real meat thing, although the process for both is not very different in the EU than in the US. [0] https://www.foodnavigator.com/Article/2022/07/26/plant-based...

That’s the average for vegan products. Soy/tofu/cardboard Patties bring the average down but the recent products that try to replicate the taste of meat are still a premium product.

> Soy/tofu/cardboard Patties

Basic legumes and veggies are much cheaper.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#89

Post by schoolornot »

johnywalks wrote: post #56
monero-xmr wrote: post #9

It doesn’t taste that good, it smells weird when cooked, it isn’t actually healthier, it’s typically more expensive than real meat as it’s “premium”, the nutritional value is suspect… the list goes on and on

Tough choice. Weird goo that was grown in a lab by people that have no idea what they're doing OR natural food we've been eating since the dawn of time.

It's the margarine of meat.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#90

Post by gambiting »

dvh wrote: post #80

[flagged]

>>Nobody actually wants to eat artificial meat

Are you just projecting your own preference on others maybe? Both me and my wife are meat eaters and we happily get "meat-like" burger patties and sausages at least once a week - it makes for a nice break from having meat all the time, even though we both like meat. And the options nowadays are pretty good, so why not eat them?

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